Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by sneuman

vague has defined his argumentative style since the beginning of the thread. Why should he change now?

Calm down it's only a bit of fun. We all know no one's ever going to change their opinion and somewhere along the way we're probably all learning a little thing or two about the climate.

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by Tensen

Not at all. The great barrier reef has lost 50% ** cough** BS **cough** of its coral in the last 27 years and 10% of that was due to warming oceans.

De’ath, Glenn, et al. "The 27–year decline of coral cover on the Great Barrier Reef and its causes." Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 109.44 (2012): 17995-17999.

You don't live beside the Barrier Reef, or sail it much if at all. Do you?
Again, I'll use observations

I certainly hope that paper you have quoted mentions the crown of thorns starfish and cylone Hamish at least

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

Yes I get it that the climate's changing. I got that on page 1 of this thread. But where's this havoc you speak of?

You are the one who used the term "havoc".

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

Calm down it's only a bit of fun. We all know no one's ever going to change their opinion and somewhere along the way we're probably all learning a little thing or two about the climate.

In which case I will no longer respond to your posts.

[SailOar]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet
Calm down it's only a bit of fun. We all know no one's ever going to change their opinion and somewhere along the way we're probably all learning a little thing or two about the climate.

Originally Posted by jackdale

In which case I will no longer respond to your posts.

Exactly. My mistake for thinking he was serious.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

Calm down it's only a bit of fun.

Sailing is fun, cruising is fun, sail trim is fun, electronics are fun, leaking blackwater tanks are... um next... diesels are fun, outboards are (mostly) fun...

Friendly joshing is fun. Puns are fun.

I like fun, and usually try to share it.

Being trolled on AGW isn't much fun. Hope you understand.

[Reefmagnet]

I haven't been trolling anyone. I was merely stating that we need not take this particular debate too seriously. None of us are alleged climate experts. You, I or anyone else is not going to save the world. I've just been attempting to counter the hysteria and regurgitated link posting so that the silent majority following this thread get a balanced view of the AGW issue. If we all listened to a certain handful of you guys, you'd have us all curled up in a ball on the floor crying for our Mama's.

My stance, as I've already stated numerous times is that I oppose:

1. The notion that it is 100% certain that climate change is being caused by anthropogenic activities, or even CO2.
2. Climate change by default leads to, and is causing, catastrophic weather patterns.
3. Climate change can be reversed by anthropogenic activities.

I don't really feel anyone has been able to successfully prove any of the above arguments based on published observations without resorting to predictions and forecasts (but I could be biased!).

I do see how a country like Canada (and Siberia, for that matter) can consider themselves to be in the firing line at this time, but I'll still say if it's a choice between heating and cooling with climate change, give me heating any day.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

I haven't been trolling anyone.

In fairness, I think you've been for the most part sincere. But in the same way that a certain handful of "us" are alarmist to you, a fair proportion of 'you' have been non-stop lobbing the same old discredited manure about conspiracies and faked science, garnished with olde-tyme right-wing tripe. The most charitable conclusion is that some of you are simply trolling.

The core of my position is that if someone else's position requires the rejection of the work of, or the vilification of a supermajority of the best people in that field (or of science itself) to be credible, it's probably not a valid position.

(and why aren't you out sailing instead of here? Our boat hasn't launched yet, that's my excuse)

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

In fairness, I think you've been for the most part sincere. But in the same way that a certain handful of "us" are alarmist to you, a fair proportion of 'you' have been non-stop lobbing the same old discredited manure about conspiracies and faked science, garnished with olde-tyme right-wing tripe. The most charitable conclusion is that some of you are simply trolling.

The core of my position is that if someone else's position requires the rejection of the work of, or the vilification of a supermajority of the best people in that field (or of science itself) to be credible, it's probably not a valid position.

(and why aren't you out sailing instead of here? Our boat hasn't launched yet, that's my excuse)

Have been spending too much time on this site and this thread at the moment! Oh well, at least I hit 4 figures in my post count finally.

And I do think there's junk research on both sides of the fence imo on what is an extremely complex and chaotic system. I guess in another 25 years or so one side might be able to point to other other and say "Ha-Ha", Simpson's Nelson style.

And I was sailing on the weekend; along with "studying" coral reefs, fish, wind and wave patterns. Not to mention researching first hand the effects of alcohol in relation to watching sunsets. Always taking one for the team!

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

I do think there's junk research on both sides of the fence imo on what is an extremely complex and chaotic system.

If there was a clear disagreement in the scientific community, there would be a real reason to hang back for a bit. But of the genuine experts, if x says there's a problem and y says there isn't, and x >> y ... I would believe there's a problem.

Add in the fossil-fuel lobby with their thumb not so secretly on the scales for y...

And finally, the things we should be considering to reduce our alteration of the atmosphere... are things we should be doing anyway, even absent the threat of climate change. Waste less, save some for the kids, stop making such a mess.



Ok, done (again). Would the last one in the thread please turn off the light.

[senormechanico]

This thread will go on forever unless the mods wake up to the silliness and intervene.

[Reefmagnet]

Don't be a spoil sport

Sent from my SGP521 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

If there was a clear disagreement in the scientific community, there would be a real reason to hang back for a bit. But of the genuine experts, if x says there's a problem and y says there isn't, and x >> y ... I would believe there's a problem.

Add in the fossil-fuel lobby with their thumb not so secretly on the scales for y...

And finally, the things we should be considering to reduce our alteration of the atmosphere... are things we should be doing anyway, even absent the threat of climate change. Waste less, save some for the kids, stop making such a mess.



Ok, done (again). Would the last one in the thread please turn off the light.

[Tensen]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

If we all listened to a certain handful of you guys, you'd have us all curled up in a ball on the floor crying for our Mama's.

I guess the people who do listen to that handful, i.e. the majority, are made of sterner stuff then, because they aren't doing anything like that.

[SailOar]

Warming Ocean Puts Puffins in Peril

“The survival rates of fledglings on Maine’s two largest puffin colonies plunged last summer, and puffins are in declining health at the largest puffin colony in the Gulf, on a Canadian island about 10 miles off eastern Maine. Dozens of emaciated birds were found washed ashore in Massachusetts and Bermuda this past winter, likely victims of starvation … On Seal Island [in Maine], a national wildlife refuge 20 miles offshore that’s home to about 1,000 puffins, only 31 percent of the laid eggs produced fledglings, down from the five-year average of 77 percent. Similar numbers were experienced at Matinicus Rock, a nearby island with more than 800 birds.”

The AP’s Clarke Canfield reports that instead of feeding their chicks herring, the puffin parents were attempting to feed them butterfish, which were too big for the chicks to swallow. Butterfish is a more southerly species of fish that has become more abundant in the Gulf of Maine as waters have warmed, or perhaps more accessible to seabirds because it has moved higher up in the water column; according to Steve Kress of the National Audubon Society’s seabird restoration program, exceptionally warm water temperatures in the Gulf of Maine last year may have prompted an earlier-than-usual phytoplankton bloom, resulting in an early-season boost in numbers of butterfish.

It remains to be seen whether this is a harbinger of future years, or whether, if such changes are a sign of the ‘new normal’ in the Gulf region, puffins will be able to adapt. Some, however – seeing precipitous declines in some other area seabird colonies – are concerned that starving puffins may be a symptom of a broader problem…