Yanmar 1GM10 vs Volvo Penta D1-13?

[SailorKlaus]

Classic sailboat, Marieholm 26, which has an old salt-water-cooled Volvo Penta MD5A from 1977:

To install new engine; Which engine is best suited? or recommended? most reliable?

Yanmar 1GM10 or Volvo Penta D1-13?

And what about the cooling system; salt water or fresh water?

[Michael Cobbe]

I've mentioned this before, I asked a number of marine engine repairers in the Caribbean which engine they had to repair the least, the concensus was Yanmar.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by SailorKlaus

Classic sailboat, Marieholm 26, which has an old salt-water-cooled Volvo Penta MD5A from 1977:

To install new engine; Which engine is best suited? or recommended? most reliable?

Yanmar 1GM10 or Volvo Penta D1-13?

And what about the cooling system; salt water or fresh water?

Both engines will last a very long time if properly maintained; it is unlikely you will need to do major repairs to either. IMO, Yanmar parts are very expensive but Volvo are even dearer.

In larger engines (20 to 40 hp), I would always recommend Yanmar (or Beta) but not in this case.

The 1GM10 is a very solid engine that has been around for a long time but it is a single cylinder and only available (AFAIK) with raw water cooling.

The D1-13 is coolant cooled and a twin cylinder. It will be much smoother running than the 1GM10. It also comes with a 115A alternator.

However IMO, a Beta 14 (or Beta 10) would be a better choice. They are twin cylinder coolant cooled engines based on the industrial Kubota engine with support everywhere in the world and with reasonable part pricing.

[Wotname]

Also...

SailorKlaus, a belated welcome to CF! I see that while you have been a member for quite some time,this is you first post

[Primal Alliance]

I RAN A 1GM10 FOR 2300 HOURS. I AM IN BOTH AGREEMENT AND DISAGREEMENT TO A CERTAIN EXTENT WITH THE PREVIOUS POST. YES, THE 1GM10 IS RAW WATER COOLED. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO HOOK IT UP TO AN EXTERNAL HEAT EXCHANGER. IF I'M WRONG ABOUT THIS{AND I MAY BE}THEN I HAVE NO DISAGREEMENT MOREOVER WITH THE FELLOW WHO RECOMMENDED THE VOLVO. THAT SAID HOWEVER, IF THE VOLVO IS PUTTING OUT THE SAME 10HP AS THE YANMAR, COUPLING IT TO A 115 AMP ALTERNATOR IS ASKING TOO MUCH OUT OF AN ENGINE THAT SIZE. IT WILL CAUSE PROBLEMS. TO BOOT, OVER TIME, AT LEAST WITH THEIR INITIAL OFFERINGS, VOLVOS MADE BETTER ANCHOR THAN AUXILIARY ENGINES. HOPEFULLY THAT HAS CHANGED. NEVERTHELESS, RAW WATER COOLING IS TO BE AVOIDED IF AT ALL POSSIBLE. MY 1GM10 NEEDED THE THERMOSTAT REMOVED AT AROUND THE 1500 HOUR MARK TO COOL PROPERLY. THIS COULD ONLY HAVE BEEN DUE TO SCALE BUILD UP IN THE INTERNAL PASSAGES OF THE ENGINE. I CURRENTLY RUN A 13YM20 IN MY DANA 24 AND HAVE 2000 HOURS ON IT WITH NO PROBLEMS. I BELIEVE YANMAR IS IN GENERAL A SUPERIOR ENGINE BUILDER COMPARED TO VOLVO. PERIOD.

[Lowcountry]

I had a 1GM10 in my Alerion 28 and it was a great little engine. Never had a single problem with it for the 2.5 years that I owned it. Burned about 1/3gph at 2600rpm.

[warrior 90]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Both engines will last a very long time if properly maintained; it is unlikely you will need to do major repairs to either. IMO, Yanmar parts are very expensive but Volvo are even dearer.

In larger engines (20 to 40 hp), I would always recommend Yanmar (or Beta) but not in this case.

The 1GM10 is a very solid engine that has been around for a long time but it is a single cylinder and only available (AFAIK) with raw water cooling.

The D1-13 is coolant cooled and a twin cylinder. It will be much smoother running than the 1GM10. It also comes with a 115A alternator.

However IMO, a Beta 14 (or Beta 10) would be a better choice. They are twin cylinder coolant cooled engines based on the industrial Kubota engine with support everywhere in the world and with reasonable part pricing.

I would also opt for the BETA engine..... parts everywhere and many people outside the marine $$$ industry can fix the Kubota base engine. Also BETA has some cool stock accessories

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by SailorKlaus

.........

And what about the cooling system; salt water or fresh water?

Further to this question - coolant (AKA fresh water) cooling is considered better than raw water (AKA salt water) cooling, particularly because it allows the engine to operate at a higher temperature however there is nothing to afraid off with raw water cooling provided the following three considerations are taken into account.

In the order of importance.

1. The engine was designed for raw water cooling. Typically Yanmars are designed to be suitable for raw water cooling.

2. The engine anodes are replaced regularly.

3. The water jacket in the engine block / head / exhaust manifold is descaled as required (say every two years or 500 hours). This is reasonably straightforward and is IMO, an essential maintenance item.

I have had four raw water cooled Yanmars and two of them are about 40 years old and all are (were) perfectly fine.

People expect to have to maintain (clean / descale) the heat exchanger with a coolant cooled engine yet forget to consider that a raw water cooled engine requires the same attention.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Primal Alliance

........ THAT SAID HOWEVER, IF THE VOLVO IS PUTTING OUT THE SAME 10HP AS THE YANMAR, COUPLING IT TO A 115 AMP ALTERNATOR IS ASKING TOO MUCH OUT OF AN ENGINE THAT SIZE. IT WILL CAUSE PROBLEMS. .........

The rated hp for the Volvo D1-13 is 13 hp and it drive the 115 Amp alternator satisfactorily.

[warrior 90]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Further to this question - coolant (AKA fresh water) cooling is considered better than raw water (AKA salt water) cooling, particularly because it allows the engine to operate at a higher temperature however there is nothing to afraid off with raw water cooling provided the following three considerations are taken into account.

In the order of importance.

1. The engine was designed for raw water cooling. Typically Yanmars are designed to be suitable for raw water cooling.

2. The engine anodes are replaced regularly.

3. The water jacket in the engine block / head / exhaust manifold is descaled as required (say every two years or 500 hours). This is reasonably straightforward and is IMO, an essential maintenance item.

I have had four raw water cooled Yanmars and two of them are about 40 years old and all are (were) perfectly fine.

People expect to have to maintain (clean / descale) the heat exchanger with a coolant cooled engine yet forget to consider that a raw water cooled engine requires the same attention.

Well, I would say there is a little more to that.
Engine life is measured by run time hours.
Engine coolant is less corrosive then salt water.
Close loop cooling systems allow to control the engine temperature and thereby use oils designed for different temperature range and viscosity rates that improve lubrication.

[Primal Alliance]

Interesting. Never heard of descaling a raw water engine block. How is it done?


Also, I think 13hp driving a 115 alternator is overstressing an engine.

[slug]

Originally Posted by Primal Alliance

Interesting. Never heard of descaling a raw water engine block. How is it done?


Also, I think 13hp driving a 115 alternator is overstressing an engine.

Don’t know your engine ..call the manufacture for descaling advice

The common descaling agent for heat exchangers is Sulfamic acid

[Primal Alliance]

Just spoke with my full time diesel mechanic here in Seattle at a business called Auxiliary Engine. All they do is work on small sail boat inboards in a 1500 slip marina occupied by 1200 sail boats. He states sulfuric acid never works and always fails. I rest my case. This fellow, if he wants the 1GM10 to run forever, and I think its capable of it, needs to plumb a heat exchanger into the cooling circuit. Period.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Primal Alliance

Interesting. Never heard of descaling a raw water engine block. How is it done?

...........

Originally Posted by Primal Alliance

Just spoke with my full time diesel mechanic here in Seattle at a business called Auxiliary Engine. All they do is work on small sail boat inboards in a 1500 slip marina occupied by 1200 sail boats. He states sulfuric acid never works and always fails. I rest my case. This fellow, if he wants the 1GM10 to run forever, and I think its capable of it, needs to plumb a heat exchanger into the cooling circuit. Period.

I don't know why someone would use sulfuric (sulphuric?) acid (H2SO4) for removing salt deposits (usually calcium carbonate) for a cast iron engine block.

I also think that sulfamic acid (H3NSO3) is too mild to be effective for this job; it is better suited for descaling a coffee machine or cleaning dentures.

Muriatic acid (AKA hydrochloric acid, HCl) is a far better choice. The process is straightforward, remove anodes and block by-pass hose, rig a small plastic bilge pump to pump from a plastic bucket into the bottom of the engine water inlet. Remove hose from water injection point of the exhaust and redirect back into the bucket. Place about 5 to 8 litres of hydrochloric acid (~20 to 30%) in the bucket and circulate though engine for 30 to 60 minutes. Rinse several times with fresh water and refit anodes and hoses to original positions. Job done for a couple of years.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Primal Alliance

......


Also, I think 13hp driving a 115 alternator is overstressing an engine.

Let's run the numbers.

115A times 14.4V = 1,656 W.

Assuming an 70% efficiency, the alternator would need 2,366 W from the motor.

That equates 3.17 hp.

Of course this is worst case. More often the alternator will be operating well below it's rated maximum, more likely to be less than 40A. This requires about 1.1 hp.

I think alternator drive belt will struggle delivering 100+ amps for any length of time but what is does mean is that the alternator should be able to deliver 40 or 50 amps continuously without overheating.

This may or may not be useful for the OP.