Why the endless need for speed?

[Sandero]

My issue with lots of speed is that it is less forgiving... and the forces are much greater. 6-8 knots is plenty of speed... feels very fast and it still takes a long time to get some place.

If I am out on the water... slower than 4 mean the iron genny usually.... assuming we are trying to get somewhere.

[Stakaman]

[QUOTE=El Pinguino;2445424]This has developed into a 'big is best' pissing contest..

Bigger isn't always best... its all to do with how you use it.. or so a young lady once told me..

🤣[emoji23]mate she was lying !!!

[UNCIVILIZED]

Boatie definitely has a point on strategies for the heavy stuff, but... that said

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Of course fast is fun... and no-one would ever want to go to sea on a slug... however....

On a passage of any consequence the idea that making 8 knots instead of 6 is going to get you out of trouble - when fronts can pass through at 30 knots - is fallacious at best.

It's not.

I'm with Boatie.. the need for speed can lead to breakages which can ruin your entire day voyage.

If you can average 2kts faster for a day or two, that often makes a Huge difference with where you are positioned relative to a system that's approaching the area you're in. Be it to use that extra distance in order to position yourself away from the worst of things, & or to use the strong winds to benefit you in reaching your destination speedily. And or, to position yourself so that you can take advantage of a new front headed your way so as to make decent speed, when otherwise you'll be left drifting, in the middle of a high pressure cell.

As even guys who get paid to sail generally dislike bobbing around in little to no wind. And the other KEY element to this is that light airs, & drifting conditions are harder on boats, gear, & crews than is heavy weather. Such is an indisputable fact. So that avoiding calms does as much or more to preserving the boat & her gear as does avoiding heavy weather. Ergo that extra bit of speed provided by a good sail wardrobe, & proper sail trim at all times, is an overall fiscal gain.

Not to mention a morale boost. As drifting sucks. And on any given watch in light air, I often do more sail changes than in all of my watches for 3 days of heavy weather combined.
I've been in races where we were stuck in light patches, and I literally did a sail change every 5 minutes, as the wind continually spun completely around the compass, again, & again.
So much so that I finally gave up trying to get any time in my bunk, & "slept" at the base of the mast, telling the crew to wake me when it was time for the next sail change.

I'll take hand stitching a patch into the #3, that's needed from use in marginal conditions, while sitting on the weather rail, to the above light air madness any day of the week!

[puffcard]

I'm just thinking sailboats, because on motorboats if you want to go faster, you push the pedal down or add a bigger motor.

If two sailboats are going in the same direction, they're racing. Having the faster boat is nice.

Fast sailboats can go fast enough to catch Wahoo.

Fast sailboats motor less, saves on fuel, rides better when pressed up and more enjoyable.

Fast sailboats are capable of self rescue with less effort.

The funny thing is all the cruisers with their 6kt boats. Once anchored up, feel the endless need for speed, while running thru the anchorage at +20kts in their RIBs.

So even if you deny the need for speed...you have it.

The truth I don't understand the love for big heavy boats. The average wind speed is 10kts in the areas we sail. A sailboat that gets moving in 5kts of wind compare to a boat that needs 15kts is going to have a lot more sailing days. Then nobody is leaving harbour in +20kts. So the heavy sailboat has a limited wind range of 15-20kts to enjoy sailing. The more performance boat is enjoying 5-20kts.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by boatman61

And... the majority of folks out there have the cheap boats.. the percentage of $100k/200k+ cruisers is pretty small when you look at it..
CF tends to cast a false picture of reality.. got to go to Yahoo Groups, YBW etc to find the hidden majorities.. ��

Very, very true. The amount of $ & chatter spent talking about systems & gear here on CF boggles my mind, & at times is flat out nauseating. It seems as if a vast percentage of the boats on here are literally bigger, & definitely more expensive, than the average home. And when folks ask "how large a genset do I need in order to power X, Y, & Z"; after promptly puking, I want to go & scream at them that sailing isn't about gear & systems. Nor having your "yacht", yes, yacht, not boat, be as comfy & convenient as your home.

I'll take a simple 40'er, that sails well, & has solid, basic systems, over a tricked out 30-35'er any day of the week. Sailing is about being in tune with the elements, not seperating yourself from it with AC & an airlock. Coupled with a back porch & screened patio bigger than the one at my house.


To borrow a reply of mine in another thread, specifically http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post2444972

Quote: Originally Posted by Dockhead
To talk about daily runs, we really also need to talk about suitable weather.

On an ocean crossing like the ARC you will have plenty of days with not enough wind -- no matter how much sail area you have -- to move the boat much. It brings the average down.

The following is my reply to Dockhead's quoted text above:
I think that a fair percentage of the boats & crews doing the ARC, as well as cruising, are fairly green by racing or offshore passaging standards. Not that they don't have sea time persay, but that they don't have the depth of experience to know where the line between pushing & foolish lays. Nor the deisre to find out. As when you've a good idea where that line is, you can push fairly hard with little damage: To the boat, her gear, or her crew. A thing which is always worthwhile to learn, or expound upon. As it expands your judgement & depth of seamanship for when things truly begin to get hairy.

Yes, light air hurts, but properly fitted out & trimmed, most boats should be able to sail at 2-3kts or more in all but the lightest of airs. Albeit their VMG won't be optimal, but doing 3kts SOG when TWS reads 4kts truly is good for morale. As well as keeping a nice cool breeze flowing over the boat. And said speed may well allow you to crab over into a more favorable weather system, & thus then make up some time.

The other sad truth is that I'd venture that a large percentage of the slower boats have a limited light air sail inventory at best. Sure, they have monsterous ground tackle, the latest in electronic nav aids & toys, & even good storm sails. But buying light air sails tends to be near the end of the list for a lot of folks, for whatever reason. I can't say as I know what that reason is. Fear maybe. Of big sails, being overpowered, knocked down, "looking foolish", I don't know. And none of those are based in reality really, other than taking a knock if caught with too much canvas up as a squall rolls in.

IMO a boat without at least 2-3 light air sails is doomed to either drift or motor when the breeze drops into the sub 5kt range. And personally, I'd trade just about anything onboard, but for my drysuit, big anchor, or radar, for a versatile light air sail or quiver of such sails to choose from. Especially given their price if you pick them up used, & or improvise.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Speed is relative, Mike ...

Anyhow, I don't understand why some folks, like the OP find trying to sail one's boat as fast as is feasible so repellent. They are welcome to sail however they want, and if poorly trimmed sails and a dirty bottom make them happy, more power to them... they'll spend less money on their boats!

Jim

I like to sail efficiently Jim. I like sailing my boat as well, and as fast as I can for the conditions. And yes, sometimes more speed is a welcome thing. I'm not trying to suggest otherwise.

What I find amusing is the strong focus on "the need for speed" over a wide variety of cruising topics. From boat speed to needing a dishwasher to clean the dishes, this drive for more, faster, easier... seems to infect all discussions.

There was a book a while back (which I haven't read) called something like In Praise of Slow. It just seems to me if you're drawn to cruising in a smallish sailboat, you've got to appreciate slow.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by BandB

Wifey B: Well, I once heard that those who said "Size doesn't matter" are those without.

I think there's some of that in speed too. If we can only go x amount, we try to say we wouldn't like more. Sometimes it's true, sometimes it's not.

I don't want to cruise regularly under 18-20 knots. I like 35 knots. I'd really like 45-50 knots. I don't have any desire to go beyond 60 knots as I've been 90 mph on water and it really was beyond my comfort level. Control was poor, boat walked and one wave hitting wrong would have been scary. Fastest boat we've ever owned had WOT of 55 knots and cruised 40-45 and I loved it.

I like 55kts on a Yamaha750 jet bike but like a soot bucket its a different game.. I've done 200nm days and 30nm days.. both were fun but different... still managed half a book a day.. the AP does the work lets face it. ��
I do like the rush of max hull speed as much as anyone but thats for daysails.. not a 2k+ nonstop.. and I think many who talk speed dont do that.. just theorise about it.

[bailsout]

For me, sailing is always about speed because it means that the most speed is an indicator that I've trimmed her as best I can. Unfortunately I rarely have someone on board that could show me that she might even go faster if.....And I'm talking about with just the system I have on board. Great thing about gps is you get quick feedback as you make your adjustments.

[DMCantor]

We sailed for several years on the Lake of Lucerne in Switzerland. Winds there are almost always light, mostly less than 5 knots. On the rare occasions that we got up to 3 knots of boat speed, we felt like we were flying. It's all relative. Mostly we puttered along at 1 or 1.5 knots.

On the other hand, the scenery there is absolutely breathtaking, and every moment was a joy.

No sailboat is going to be fast in an absolute sense. But beautiful? Absolutely.

[daletournier]

So all the speed dosent matter camp are telling me, if they had a choice between averaging 8k or 5k while on passage they would choose the latter? I dont think so.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by daletournier

So all the speed dosent matter camp are telling me, if they had a choice between averaging 8k or 5k while on passage they would choose the latter? I dont think so.

No, they'd rather be sitting there with their boom and sails banging back and forth watching for uninterested dolphins to pass by.

[a64pilot]

For most boats the whole speed thing is sort of mute. For me about 7.5 kts is it, maybe 8 pushing it, but that's all she wrote folks, and I think most are in the same boat.
However I think from my little sailing fast isn't where it's at, cause most of us are not capable, very few of our boats will plane, but being able to ghost along when other boats can't move may well be an asset.
But that's $$ possibly money well spent if you have it, and not if you don't.
Speed is $$, and I don't think you have to have it, but admit it's nice, but so is air conditioning and ice makers, big screen TVs etc.

[dick sargent]

I enjoy the passage more than getting there. Only interested going ashore to get supplies.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by dick sargent

I enjoy the passage more than getting there. Only interested going ashore to get supplies.

I guess a lot depends on where you're going and what's there when you arrive.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by daletournier

So all the speed dosent matter camp are telling me, if they had a choice between averaging 8k or 5k while on passage they would choose the latter? I dont think so.

Dont sail with me then.. 😀