Technical Terms/Nomenclature/Terminology

[Bowdrie]

Anyone ever had any thoughts or discussions about "proper" usage of nautical terms?
Many years ago I first heard the term "Cutter Ketch", or "Cutter rigged Ketch".
I think it was started by brokers who didn't have enough knowledge to use the proper term, "Double headsail Ketch".
Interestingly, you seldom, (if ever,) hear the term, "Cutter Yawl", or "Cutter Schooner",, perhaps only Ketches can use that terminology??
Another one we hear is "Slutter" like a Sloop that has a staysail, in reality, the mast for a true Cutter is placed further aft in relation to the LWL than a Sloop. No matter what kind of stay you add, or where you place it, a Sloop will never be a true Cutter.
Another term we hear all the time is "Inner Forestay",, OK, where or what is the "Outer Forestay",, unless you have a boat that can carry at least 2 headsails inboard of the stem, their is no "Inner Forestay",, it's just a "Forestay".
It's easy to visualize,, take a boat like a Westsail 32, 'cause we all know what they look like.
They have a Jib, that jib sets on a "Jibstay", which connects to a "Jib Boom", what we call a "Bowsprit" was really a structural appendage for mounting a "Jib Boom", (attached by a Gammon Iron, or a "Gammoning,) which has attached to it a "Jibstay".
The staysail is attached to a "Forestay", and it is a "Forestaysail".
You'll notice that a boat like the Westsail example does not have a "Headstay", a headstay goes from the "Masthead" to the "Stemhead".
Another usage of terminology that has been cancelled is the classic definitions of headsails;
"Staysails are set at, or inboard of the stemhead, sails set outboard of the stemhead are jibs", but I suppose that in modern times we can forgive that twisting of usage,, but the usage of "Cutter rigged Ketch", or "Inner Forestay" are in my mind, abominations, suitable only for the unknowing novice.
Unrelated to sails is the term "Length overall".
It tends to be used as including a bowsprit/jib boom, and/or a stern appendage for supporting a backstay,, whilst the definition given in the CFRs is "Length overall is defined as the measurement between the forward most part of the stem, to the aftermost part of the sternpost".
It seems that bowsprits are only considered as part of the LOA when salesmen, hucksters, and marina owners want to make their product seem bigger,, or charge more for a slip.
OK, rant over, thus ends.

[BillKny]

I'll bet you are just a load of fun at the local sailor bar.

Take two Valium and call back in the morning.

Belay that. Take three. With a whiskey chaser.

[Orion Jim]

Sailors use many arcane terms. Sailors from the 12th century would have trouble understanding sailors from the 14th century. Many terms have withstood the test of time but that is not to say the terms have not evolved throughout the centuries. Modern sailors have evolved and the terms used have likewise evolved just as many terms have been added to the lexicon.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Orion Jim

Sailors use many arcane terms. Sailors from the 12th century would have trouble understanding sailors from the 14th century. Many terms have withstood the test of time but that is not to say the terms have not evolved throughout the centuries. Modern sailors have evolved and the terms used have likewise evolved just as many terms have been added to the lexicon.

Correct, jargon is epoch appropriate no language is cast in stone, terms evolve, “Cutter ketch” is understood today. Hence its as valid as any other piece of jargon

[Bowdrie]

Jeepers Batman,, I must have struck a nerve with someone.
As a newb I will need to learn to make my posts have more sour-chasm in them.
I'm never offended, nor even upset about language issues, as an old guy I'm just old-fashioned in many ways, old fashioned enough that I still believe that once a boat reaches the size of needing 2 masts,, I'll prefer a staysail schooner over any ketch or yawl, they're quite easy to handle.
Oh, about "sailor bars", haven't been in one in many years, but I do remember a quote, (I think it was Sir Thomas Lipton,) I'll have to paraphrase:
"Drinking and immorality are the very backbone of yachting".

[Dsanduril]

Hmm, there are a couple of other very recent threads on this issue:

When are nautical terms better, and when are they not?

I Get Teased About Nautical Terms

so, it does certainly strike some nerves around here

[skipperpete]

Bowdrie, times change and so does the language concerning the parts of ships and yachts. Where do you hear mention of bulwarks and sponsons or deadeyes, euphroes, snotters these days? Rigs have changed quite a lot too, I’m not sure what terminology to use to describe parts of a spear rig and wonder if a single wire from a boom to a traveler and tensioned by a hydraulic ram inside the boom can even be called a main sheet.
Pete.