Safety at sea (from other humans)

[SanPuluei]

What is the situation when sailing in 'dangerous areas.'



I believe around Somalia - or in my neck of the woods, the Philippines, or Malacca. (They used to be in the news all the time.)


Are there still issues in those areas? (The Philippines in particular would be where I'm interested in.)


What do you do to keep yourself safe in regards to preventing people boarding And, do you just keep sailing through those areas without stopping on a wing and a prayer, or avoid them completely?


***



Don't get me wrong, I'm not paranoid. I've lived in Asia all my life, and I know most people are kind, generous and unthreatening... but I've never sailed through an area that might be considered 'dangerous'.



What's people's general views of sailing through these areas?

[Greatest Lakes]

It seems a great chunk of the world is largely unsafe. Avoiding specific areas all together seems to be a viable strategy.

https://www.icc-ccs.org/piracy-repor...ive-piracy-map

[ off topic material redacted ]


I know people who sail in some areas have metal bars constructed they can lock to the companionway to bar entry. One of the sailing youtubers, windhippie sailing, was boarded and robbed in Panama, and they took almost everything not bolted down. This was prior to covid I think.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by SanPuluei

What's people's general views of sailing through these areas?

Don't.

The areas that are known for piracy, or high levels of violent crime, are few. The world is large. As a cruiser, you are privileged to be able to choose where to go, so why would you purposely travel to a known problem area?


[ off topic paragraph redacted ]

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Greatest Lakes

It seems a great chunk of the world is largely unsafe. Avoiding specific areas all together seems to be a viable strategy.

https://www.icc-ccs.org/piracy-repor...ive-piracy-map

As an American, I'm annoyed that more countries don't recognize the use of firearms for self defense. This is a topic that comes up here periodically. I know people who sail in some areas have metal bars constructed they can lock to the companionway to bar entry. One of the sailing youtubers, windhippie sailing, was boarded and robbed in Panama, and they took almost everything not bolted down. This was prior to covid I think.

Its a risk one accounts for in ones decisions to cruise certain area's.. not unlike deciding to walk through certain area's in US cities, one knows there's violence so either detour or take the risk.
Its not like the world is a peaceful place, random attacks, fatal muggings happen all around the world and as shown by 'Exceptional' example the right to bear arms is no guarantee of safety.
The most famous example on a boat carrying a weapon.. a simple robbery turned into Needless death and injuries when someone got gung ho..

Sir Peter Blake, the world's most famous sailor, who went further and faster then anyone before, was yesterday shot and killed by a group of armed pirates known as "the water rats" in a night-time robbery on his boat in the Brazilian Amazon.

Blake, aged 53, had returned from dinner with his crew in Macapa, a remote city on the northern bank of the Amazon delta, when a gang of up to eight men arrived at his boat by rubber dinghy.


When the gang, wearing motorcycle helmets, made their demands, Blake reached for his gun and shot one of them, according to Brazilian police. In retaliation the robbers opened fire. Blake died from gunshot wounds. Two other members of the crew were injured.

[deblen]

How thick is the fiberglass of your boat?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmlZP64vFig

[Mike OReilly]

BTW, I assume the "un" part in "unsafe" statement was a typo. By any measure, the vast majority of the world is wonderfully safe. If you honestly believes otherwise, then you need to step away from the screens, and get out into the real world.

The areas known for actual piracy, or serious violent crime targeting foreigners, are few. In most cases, where there is a lot of violent crime, it's largely targeted at the local population.

Random crime happens everywhere, to varying degrees. Cruisers mostly experience property crime. Much of this is opportunistic, but sometime targeted. There are lots of ways to mitigate this risk. Your head is your best weapon.

[odonnellryan]

Originally Posted by Greatest Lakes

It seems a great chunk of the world is largely unsafe. Avoiding specific areas all together seems to be a viable strategy.

https://www.icc-ccs.org/piracy-repor...ive-piracy-map

As an American, I'm annoyed that more countries don't recognize the use of firearms for self defense. This is a topic that comes up here periodically. I know people who sail in some areas have metal bars constructed they can lock to the companionway to bar entry. One of the sailing youtubers, windhippie sailing, was boarded and robbed in Panama, and they took almost everything not bolted down. This was prior to covid I think.

And if she had a gun, who knows what may have happened? Maybe she got them to leave - or maybe she killed them and herself ended up dead. Who's to say what would be better?

[s/v Jedi]

I will start with the only correct answer for CF, but will add my opinion as well

Educate yourself. A good place to start is reading about actual cases and how professionals teach how to deal with this: https://www.amazon.com/Pirates-Aboar.../dp/1574092308

The book says that there is only one proven method that is 100% effective: delay entrance to cabin (bars at a locked companionway) and let them know kicking it in will be a fatal mistake (fire warning shot through deck hatch).

Our single encounter with pirates was handled by eye contact while showing the shotgun.

My opinion is to avoid the areas… we did a 1,000nm detour to avoid trouble spots a couple years ago, but do the reading and make the plan just like you must make the abandon ship plan etc.

About Sir Blake: the only reason the pirates shot and killed him after he shot a pirate was that his gun jammed. The lesson is to make sure you have a good gun that doesn’t jam and maintain it 100%.

There is a good video on YouTube about a convoy of yachts attacked off the Yemen coast and the pirates, even though armed with AK47’s were repelled by a single yachtsman with a pump shotgun.

[HeinSdL]

[ one sentence redacted ] What should I do with advice to carry a gun on board to start a good shoot out if needed? Obviously it is impractical to check the bloody thing in and out from country to country and then, in anger, I am supposed to give the impression that I would actually kill someone? The last time I touched such a weapon was in the 80's in the UK, frigging .303 Lee Enfields, ridiculous things, and I will never hold a gun again.

What I would do is avoid the very few areas where you might get shot (albeit with a very small probability) and if you really can't avoid such areas (reading the above Panama is risky??) then, well, that's the risk of living. Prefer to get shot on my way to the Panama canal then dying of a heart infarct studying an excel spreadsheet.

[odonnellryan]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I will start with the only correct answer for CF, but will add my opinion as well

Educate yourself. A good place to start is reading about actual cases and how professionals teach how to deal with this: https://www.amazon.com/Pirates-Aboar.../dp/1574092308

The book says that there is only one proven method that is 100% effective: delay entrance to cabin (bars at a locked companionway) and let them know kicking it in will be a fatal mistake (fire warning shot through deck hatch).

Our single encounter with pirates was handled by eye contact while showing the shotgun.

My opinion is to avoid the areas… we did a 1,000nm detour to avoid trouble spots a couple years ago, but do the reading and make the plan just like you must make the abandon ship plan etc.

About Sir Blake: the only reason the pirates shot and killed him after he shot a pirate was that his gun jammed. The lesson is to make sure you have a good gun that doesn’t jam and maintain it 100%.

There is a good video on YouTube about a convoy of yachts attacked off the Yemen coast and the pirates, even though armed with AK47’s were repelled by a single yachtsman with a pump shotgun.

There's probably also some level of survivorship bias here.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I will start with the only correct answer for CF, but will add my opinion as well

Educate yourself. A good place to start is reading about actual cases and how professionals teach how to deal with this: https://www.amazon.com/Pirates-Aboar.../dp/1574092308

The book says that there is only one proven method that is 100% effective: delay entrance to cabin (bars at a locked companionway) and let them know kicking it in will be a fatal mistake (fire warning shot through deck hatch).

Our single encounter with pirates was handled by eye contact while showing the shotgun.

My opinion is to avoid the areas… we did a 1,000nm detour to avoid trouble spots a couple years ago, but do the reading and make the plan just like you must make the abandon ship plan etc.

About Sir Blake: the only reason the pirates shot and killed him after he shot a pirate was that his gun jammed. The lesson is to make sure you have a good gun that doesn’t jam and maintain it 100%.

There is a good video on YouTube about a convoy of yachts attacked off the Yemen coast and the pirates, even though armed with AK47’s were repelled by a single yachtsman with a pump shotgun.

As happens more often than I thought, I agree with the Jedi here.

Another strategy that I use everywhere for defense is to have a single point of entry. Everyone has to funnel through one spot. You hide away and set up aiming at that spot. Each new person that comes through gets stopped. soon they will stop coming through

Works great with firearms but even a big heavy cast-iron pan or something will work as well. As long as they don’t see it coming

[Jammer]

Moderator note:

Please keep in mind that discussions of politics or weaponry are permitted only to the extent that they are relevant to the topic of cruising. If you choose to participate in this discussion, be courteous and keep your posts strictly on topic.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Chotu

As happens more often than I thought, I agree with the Jedi here.

Another strategy that I use everywhere for defense is to have a single point of entry. Everyone has to funnel through one spot. You hide away and set up aiming at that spot. Each new person that comes through gets stopped. soon they will stop coming through

Works great with firearms but even a big heavy cast-iron pan or something will work as well. As long as they don’t see it coming

The conclusions from the study on actual cases of piracy on bluewater cruisers learns that it was never needed to actually shoot anyone. Not even the coke stoned pirates are crazy enough to attempt the locked companionway knowing a lethal force is ready at the other side. Not one single case.

[HeinSdL]

Having my earlier post removed for the right reasons I will change tack and ask a question instead: can I have a firearm (lethal force to use a generic term for such a monstrous piece of kit) on board and sail around the med, the Caribbean, SE Asia you name it, problem free? From a European perspective I find the laissez faire around the use of firearms bewildering.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by SanPuluei

What is the situation when sailing in 'dangerous areas.'

I believe around Somalia - or in my neck of the woods, the Philippines, or Malacca. (They used to be in the news all the time.)

Are there still issues in those areas? (The Philippines in particular would be where I'm interested in.)...

A source I have been reading for years, StrategyPage | Military News Humor Photos, is not a cruising/sailing/boating website, but it covers some of the marine related trouble spots. I own, and read, quite a few books written by the editor in Chief of the website, well before there were websites.

The link covers issues in the Philippines fairly regularly and things seem to have improved greatly in the Moro areas of the southern islands. Not sure I would venture down there, but the safety situation has improved, at least of for the locals. From the reports on the website, it was pretty obvious to me to stay out of certain areas in the PI, especially the South, years prior to the attack, murder and kidnapping of the cruisers from the marina near Davao City.

Noonsite is a good source of information as well, https://www.noonsite.com/

Later,
Dan