Safety at sea (from other humans)

[CaptainMarkS]

We rely on the size and teeth of our pit bull. It’s amazing how viscerally folks react to a dog’s willingness to protect their owner, especially in confined spaces like a yacht. We’ve had pangas approach us and turn around once they saw Lapa. Their intentions might have been completely innocent (e.g. selling fish). Nevertheless, we feel safer with her than without.

[n5ama]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Any law enforcement officer, incl. secret service, turned into blue water cruiser will avoid known areas of trouble, but they will also always be armed in case trouble comes to them.

They do not tell that drawing their gun increases chances to die. They will tell -you- that -your- chances to die will increase when you draw a gun before it is needed. Training is crucial and training reduces the chance to die violently.

Another remark: accidentally shooting innocent fishermen who come by asking for a smoke. If you run the risk of doing that, you should not be armed.
That said, consider that they are not as innocent as it sounds in these comments. They come to you to get stuff from you. If they are young and strong, you must understand that many are opportunistic when they think you are weak and they can get away with pressuring you to give them more stuff.
I have never heard of any cruiser shooting an innocent fisherman who comes asking for a cigarette, so this is not a valid argument anyway and always comes from those who are not allowed to arm themselves.

Avoid trouble. Sometimes easier said than done. Not many avoid St Lucia, St Vincent and other popular places where cruisers die violent deaths and/or get robbed from everything. When you cruise the world, you better think about security and make plans about how to act. Every professional mariner does this and before they approach trouble areas (West Africa or southern approach to Suez Canal good examples), they actually practice this plan and prepare the ship with anti boarding measures. Those who hire security personnel never get boarded, which should be a good hint.

“Declaring a gun is too much trouble and it will get you in trouble.” No, it isn’t and no, it won’t. If you are not willing to keep a gun log in your logbook then you shouldn’t own them. If you can’t be bothered declaring guns then you shouldn’t own them. If you have no means for securely storing them then you shouldn’t own them.
We have sailed Jedi to more than 20 countries in the past 20 years, entering most of them multiple times and always declaring what we have. It never took more than a couple of minutes extra and it never caused us any trouble. Customs officers deal with that every day and will not be “unpleasantly surprised” by it. I have even had a female officer in the Bahamas writing down the serial numbers on the form for me while I filled out another form.
What gets you in trouble is when you hesitate to declare, don’t know serial numbers, have no paperwork, don’t have an ammo count, don’t give straight answers etc. I have seen it happen right in front of me while waiting my turn.

That doesn’t mean you can do this everywhere. Just like checking if you need a visa, you also need to check gun regulations for every country you visit. Some don’t allow it, period (example: Mexico) while others have restrictions (example: US requires guns to have been initially taken out of the US) and you need to deal with that.
For a place like Mexico you could hide the guns and hope for the best. What to do when they bring a dog aboard that is trained to find them? Not a good plan imho and we simply don’t do that. Better plan would be to select an approach to Mexica that takes you along some cays or reefs where you can anchor and leave the gun in a vacuum sealed sleeve hidden on the seabed for later retrieval.
In the case of the US, if you are allowed to have a gun there (check it), you can go to customs and ask for a certificate that allows you to bring it back into the country. Tricky on how you get it in the first place… we simply bought them in the US but most visiting cruisers are not allowed to buy guns (you must at minimum own property and pay tax). It may be the case that you will not be allowed to bring the gun in so that makes it the same case as Mexico.

So does it get you into trouble to bring a gun in and report it, knowing it isn’t allowed? I’ve seen the US confiscate it for destruction and Mexico arrest the cruiser and put them in jail.

Same risk with visa. I have seen the US arrest and deport cruisers that tried to enter without a visa.

“You aren’t allowed to travel wherever you want”. Please give an example of where I’m not allowed to travel?

Looking back at the 20 years we have been cruising in/around the Caribbean, we did have multiple incidents, namely in Dominican Republic, St Lucia, Trinidad, Grenada, Venezuela and Panama. We avoided Nicaragua and Honduras. I only took the gun out once and that was in Venezuela and it was effective while most boats leaving at the time were boarded, often very violently. A friend was boarded twice in one hour… that’s how bad some areas are… simply sailing from Trinidad to Grenada exposes you to Venezuelan pirates so not going to Venezuela doesn’t mean you are safe.

What I am trying to say is true for many safety and security items you need to carry. Did you ever practice with a fire extinguisher? Did you do a first aid course, did you make an abandon ship plan and practice that? What is the use of (for example) carrying a tourniquet when you don’t know how to use it? It may do more harm than good in that case and it used to be not allowed for use by civilians in Holland for a long time, and only the military first aid course included it. You think we carry one? You bet, multiple and we know how to use them.

Blue water cruising means you will be on your own, away from emergency services and you will have to take care of things yourself. If you can’t deal with that, then do coastal cruising in range of cellphone and dial 911 when in trouble. It’s as simple as that.

Earlier, a flare gun was mentioned in the conversations concerning “firearms”. I keep on board a 12ga flare gun pistol that has current date flares. I’m guessing this devise would be accepted in most areas as a normal piece of emergency equipment. I would be interested in knowing what areas would not allow this, regardless of its status of “dangerous area to cruise” or not.

I would prefer not to be shot with this “equipment“. Point blank range might not kill a person, but it would make for a very uncomfortable experience and I’m guessing would be a powerful deterrent. The only issue using this equipment for defensive purposes, is not being able to reload rapidly. With practice, comes familiarity with the equipment and ability to operate it under duress. I would suggest the practice be in an area away from open water (the US Coast Guard) frowns on operating flare guns in areas that could be considered an emergency distress signal. Also, I would refrain from practicing in any area that would pose a fire hazard.

Just thinking outside the box.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by n5ama

Earlier, a flare gun was mentioned in the conversations concerning “firearms”. I keep on board a 12ga flare gun pistol that has current date flares. I’m guessing this devise would be accepted in most areas as a normal piece of emergency equipment. I would be interested in knowing what areas would not allow this, regardless of its status of “dangerous area to cruise” or not.

I would prefer not to be shot with this “equipment“. Point blank range might not kill a person, but it would make for a very uncomfortable experience and I’m guessing would be a powerful deterrent. The only issue using this equipment for defensive purposes, is not being able to reload rapidly. With practice, comes familiarity with the equipment and ability to operate it under duress. I would suggest the practice be in an area away from open water (the US Coast Guard) frowns on operating flare guns in areas that could be considered an emergency distress signal. Also, I would refrain from practicing in any area that would pose a fire hazard.

Just thinking outside the box.

Sorry to bust your plans, but…

A flare gun is not legal in large parts of the world incl. all of the EU. Also, there’s a video on YouTube of a guy shooting himself in the head with one… he was just fine, it is ineffective.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by n5ama

I would be interested in knowing what areas would not allow this, regardless of its status of “dangerous area to cruise” or not.

Be careful, because many courts will find flare guns to be deadly weapons depending on circumstances. The ATF (U.S. federal agency that regulates firearms) considers them "any other weapon" (i.e. prohibited anywhere in USA jurisdiction) when possessed with matching ammunition other than actual flares. There are also several state court cases where flare guns were brandished where weapons charges were upheld even though the devices were either unloaded or had only flares in them.


For a variety of reasons I do not carry pyrotechnic flares on my boat, preferring to use a strobe and flag for compliance, and a VHF should actual need for emergency signalling arise.

[MWhite]

This is the site many cruisers use to keep up to date on situations in different parts of the world: https://www.noonsite.com/

[alitaptap]

Specifically Philippines: I have lived / sailed here since 1998. I have been a member of the Puerto Galera Yacht Club (the cruising yacht club of the Philippines) since 2003. It is safe to sail in almost all areas.


I have never had first-hand experience of an incident anywhere and know only two people who have. The first was at anchor off northern Cebu Island when an enterprising couple of young (probably) fishermen climbed aboard at sundown and stole whatever was left on deck that looked useful. The second was a little more dramatic, at night, but resolved with the use of a high-powered flashlight and a couple of load voices because the perpetrators could not see who or how many were behind the flashlight. I have heard of no reports in the past four years.


The incident in the Davao marina six years ago was very unfortunate – wrong place at the wrong time – as it was almost certainly politically motivated to demonstrate to a nation of potential voters that even the then candidate for President (Rodrigo Duterte) could not even keep people safe in his own back yard. The kidnapping went wrong for two reasons: one, Duterte was voted into power BECAUSE of his strong-man character; and, two, negotiations for release of hostages was going well until family members from overseas thought they could do a better job and get the price down, which scared off the kidnappers and they fled taking only the able-bodied captives and our friend John was not so able. Since then the threats to life have diminished noticeably, everywhere.


Having said that, areas to avoid: Mindanao West of Dapitan (North coast); Mindanao West of Sarangani (South coast).


Other safety procedures:

• when anchoring in a new place always buy something from the fishermen if they pass by and offer some of their catch
• never invite anyone board your yacht unless they are wearing Coast Guard uniform with a name patch clearly visible, if locals do try to engage in conversation then dialog from the rail with them still in their boat
• assuming more than one of you aboard, if a local boat is possibly showing interest rotate crew to below decks where they can change T-shirt color and reappear to suggest even more people aboard
• if you have a firearm (illegal in the Philippines for foreigners) and you are long way from a populated area with a local boat possibly showing interest, throw a bottle in the water on the opposite side of your boat and try to hit it a couple of times . . . it will send a clear message that you are armed and capable if threatened

Come sail the Philippines and enjoy its abundant wonders of flora, fauna, geology . . . and its people.

[Jammer]

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[carlwk3c]

We had a good friend murdered (point blank shotgun blast) in the San Blas Islands of Panama by boarders looking to steal his outboard. His children and wife were terrorized and the wife was whacked with a machete.
This was an outlier. Unusual for that area.
Had he been armed, the outcome *might* have been different. Unarmed, he had no chance.

[nofacey]

The world is huge - don't go where violence against cruisers is common. There's multiple websites that report crime against cruisers, plus Noonsite which just a great go to.
- we did a circumnavigation, and yes we had grates built for all our openings, and lifted the dinghy at night - but there were areas we simply avoided - Somlia, New Guinea, amongst them. Never really headed that way,, but I would have researched the heck out of the Phillipines to know which areas to avoid - there has been more than one cruiser death up there.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by carlwk3c

We had a good friend murdered (point blank shotgun blast) in the San Blas Islands of Panama by boarders looking to steal his outboard. His children and wife were terrorized and the wife was whacked with a machete.
This was an outlier. Unusual for that area.
Had he been armed, the outcome *might* have been different. Unarmed, he had no chance.

You say it was unusual for the area, but we had a very good friend murdered there as well, plus we know of another boater murdered too, so that is three people right there.

In the Bahamas or even Florida, I know of no cruiser murdered at all. Of course they are all armed there

St Lucia is a good example of a place where everyone simply goes regardless of the horrible murders and rapes. People say one thing but do another.

[argonauta1]

We circumnavigated during 1999 to 2007 Panama to Panama choosing the mostly tropical route i.e. not too far north of Cancer nor too far south of Capricorn. Militarily trained, I opted not to carry weapons as I know of too many who mishandled a piracy situation and got themselves killed. As well, paranoia can lead to the death of innocents and I did not wish to blow away a simple fisher folk. After all, they can look like pirates to the nervous nelly. As well, weapons on board are a pain at customs.

I depended upon street smarts and networking to avoid trouble but given the objective of heading westbound, inevitably we had to pass some dangerous areas. Some could be circumvented which we did but others like the Gulf of Aden in 2003 could not be by-passed. That was the decision in Darwin: Africa is in our way; do we go to the south or north? We went north which meant pirates off Somalia especially in the area between there and Yemen. We opted to go non-stop from the Maldives to Eritrea thus by passing the Arabian Peninsula
As we entered the Gulf we heard of several pirate attacks on other vessels. We even listened to a gun battle as the crew of a coastal trader transmitted on VHF. It was off Socotra, 110 miles away at the time. Four boats with four pirates in each chased and boarded the freighter. The crew responded with fire hoses and iron bars! We could hear gunfire over the VHF! Never heard the outcome. That night, we ran the area lights out radar on and by morning we seemed to be clear of the danger as we were then west of Aden approaching the entrance to the Red Sea. We knew that at the time, the Red Sea was benign. Then came Israel where we found ourselves a bit close to a flare up in Gaza and decided to "get out of Dodge".

OK, that is our war story. At the time others had more serious outcomes. We met up with some of them in Massawa, Eritrea. Some sported the odd bullet hole and one in particular had to call into Djibouti to replace all his com gear which had been stolen during a pirate boarding in the Gulf of Aden. Here was another lesson: the skipper having been boarded handled himself well, kept his cool and was able to see the pirates off with no injury to his crew at the cost of his electronics and a contingency stash of USD$ which we all carried easily at hand.

So yes, there are dangerous areas which if one is to accomplish a goal, must be transited but with care, knowledge, networking, some cunning and a fair share of luck. We left our guns at home!

[Ifitsworthdoing]

A couple of points - flare guns are not only illegal in a great many jurisdictions, they aren’t even made or sold any more, nor is the ammo for them.

What is available, although rather expensive, are reproductions of historical luparas (sawn-off pistol shotguns against wolves), either as non-functional display pieces (legal but have only visual deterrence effects) or as muzzle loading black powder guns (legal in some jurisdictions but very cumbersome to operate). Price point is well above £1,000.

Another option - although illegal in some jurisdictions - are compressed air or CO2 powered weapons that can fire either large calibre ‘rubber’ bullets, pellets, or pepper/Chili filled projectiles. One maker of these is Byrna of South Africa. Price point is around £350.

Pepper spray is similarly available but illegal in many places.

Another compressed air weapon that circumvents many jurisdictions ant-firearms legislation is the Swedish invention “ScubaRinger”, now in its second incarnation and available from the German based provider GoGun. It fires darts over an effective distance of about 20m using reloadable high pressure cartridges, price point around £400. When inspected by a Customs patrol it can credibly be designated as underwater fishing gear.

GoGun and other purveyors also sell crossbows (some using multi-flèche magazines) and hunting grade slingshots.

For close-up personal defence in dark alleys we have found butane cigar lighters from Singapore to provide an almost light sabre like projecting cone of blue flame that is both impressive and frightening. Price point about £35 and best carried along with a Cuban cigar.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Ifitsworthdoing

A couple of points - flare guns are not only illegal in a great many jurisdictions, they aren’t even made or sold any more, nor is the ammo for them.

What is available, although rather expensive, are reproductions of historical luparas (sawn-off pistol shotguns against wolves), either as non-functional display pieces (legal but have only visual deterrence effects) or as muzzle loading black powder guns (legal in some jurisdictions but very cumbersome to operate). Price point is well above £1,000.

Another option - although illegal in some jurisdictions - are compressed air or CO2 powered weapons that can fire either large calibre ‘rubber’ bullets, pellets, or pepper/Chili filled projectiles. One maker of these is Byrna of South Africa. Price point is around £350.

Pepper spray is similarly available but illegal in many places.

Another compressed air weapon that circumvents many jurisdictions ant-firearms legislation is the Swedish invention “ScubaRinger”, now in its second incarnation and available from the German based provider GoGun. It fires darts over an effective distance of about 20m using reloadable high pressure cartridges, price point around £400. When inspected by a Customs patrol it can credibly be designated as underwater fishing gear.

GoGun and other purveyors also sell crossbows (some using multi-flèche magazines) and hunting grade slingshots.

For close-up personal defence in dark alleys we have found butane cigar lighters from Singapore to provide an almost light sabre like projecting cone of blue flame that is both impressive and frightening. Price point about £35 and best carried along with a Cuban cigar.

Those were developed by Jourg Sprave, a German.

Flare guns are still available: https://www.orionsignals.com/project...-signal-kit-2/

[Cynara]

You can check with the State department. If you are already in a country you can check with the embassy for safe areas

When we sailed from Long Beach California to the Panama canal we stayed 1pp miles off the west coast of Nicaragua because at the time , 1985, there was a war going on

[Cynara]

I meant 100 miles