Newbie Boat Builder

[Jazzthing]

nope

[Cadence]

Mother always knows best. might be the added years.
I'm leaving, gave my two cents worth. I wish you well.

[Meridian]

Jazz...You're a stubborn one, that's for sure! That can be a good trait to have when out on the water. Or not.
Anyway, you are clear in your ideas and decisions, and I wish you well.
Fair winds, following seas...
John

[roverhi]

It sounds like you had a lot more experience and skill than I did when I built our W32 from a hull and deck kit. Bigger boat so build time longer but it took more than a year of full time work with some finish work farmed out. From those who probably know, the hull and deck are really the easy part, it's the inside and the mechanical installation that take the time. Would budget more than 6 months to finish the boat.

As far as the trip, six months is more than pushing it. For one thing, the boat just isn't capable of long ocean passages under power even with a diesel. You'll find it's a lot faster to sail even if you have to take a circuitous route to take advantage of favorable winds. I'd try a shorter trip for the first time out. You'll find the things that need modification/fixing and can do them along the way. I'd stay away from Venezuela. It seems Chavez's workers paradise has given the criminal element the idea they can steal from the imperialist gringo what 'C' doesn't give them. Too many boats robbed and people killed their recently. Travel restrictions to Cuba are going to be eased relatively soon which makes it an obvious choice to explore. Would expect gunkholing around Cuba and the Bahamas could easily eat up 6 months.

[DavidGC]

Originally Posted by Jazzthing

For the skeptics,

On top of being a fairly skilled carpenter, licensed architect - My actual job is designing and building car bodies. I have a very technologically advanced shop with a CNC router and Milling machine. I also have the experience and inventory for what I will need to do the fiberglass.

My friend (who has built more than one boat) who gave me the plans told me that with my experience I would have no problem building this boat, and told me that with a couple helpers I could have it done within a couple months. . . .

That clarifies things.

The only other question I would have then is . . . can I come work for you and help you build the boat?!

DGC

[Jazzthing]

Meridian! I am stubborn, but I don't want anyone to think that I am not taking recommendations seriously. Because I am, I just try to keep a positive outlook on things. I hate being told I can't do something, and usually use "YOU CAN'T" as fuel to find I way to "I CAN!" Thanks for your wishes!

I am sailing from Miami, but I actually will be building in Ontario, Canada where I live. I am not restricted from travelling to Cuba, nor have I ever been, as a Canadian citizen.

Secondly, I am 100% Chavista, and my Dad is a Canadian living in Venezuela. I have spent lots and lots of time there and its where I first learned to sail. I am actually posting from Pto Cabello, Carabobo right now - which is meters from the Ocean.

So if its easier/faster and within a 6 month range of travel time its something I am sure to try. I would even consider building here and sailing back - but I don't think my wife would like that very much, she is Venezuelan and 100% against Chavez.

Could overpowering the boat with a higher than recommended HP engine be dangerous and perhaps cause the boat to falll apart? I would imagine so.

I've been thinking about building the boat for a long time - now that I am about to start I can't help but plan ahead for the Voyage.

[Jazzthing]

Originally Posted by DavidGC

That clarifies things.

The only other question I would have then is . . . can I come work for you and help you build the boat?!

DGC

Be my guest! If you're willing to work for burgers and beer, that is.

If this works out and I feel a soul calling for the trade, i might just have to build a bigger and better one. Maybe even get into the business. In which case you can all come build with me

[roverhi]

Putting in too large an engine could exceed the structural integrity of the design but not likely. The biggest thing against too larg an engine is it won't give you any extra speed. Any displacement hull is pretty much limited by its waterline length. More power is just wasted in making a bigger bow wave to climb. The only real advantage of a bigger engine is bucking into headseas/wind. The larger proper will keep the boat moving where a smaller engine might be struggling. Not something I'd worry about but then I consider an engine something to get me in and out of harbor or to keep moving in flat calms. Relying on an engine to save your bacon is a sure recipe for disaster and powering into headseas for long periods is just not my idea of fun.

[Ike]

Listen to your mother!

[keelbolts]

The trip sounds do-able (No balls. No blue chips), but you can buy a boat of that size a good deal cheaper than you can build one. If you want to build a boat - great - build one. If you need a boat to go sailing, buy one.

[imagine2frolic]

Save yourself some trouble, and cruise the Bahamas for 5 months, and fly to Brasil for a month. It is not impossible, but it is improbable. Buy a crusing boat already fitted for cruising for the same price of building, and just go. BEST WISHES in succeeding if you build a boat. Please do let us know how the project goes.......i2f

[Hud3]

Originally Posted by Jazzthing

...The plan upon completion is to sail from Miami to Brazil and then motor back.

I'd love it if I could do the trip back with no stops...

Hi, Joseph.

I admire your pluck! Building a boat like that and heading out on a huge sailing adventure such as what you described is quite a lot to accomplish. I know your prime focus is building the boat at this point, but I had a thought or two on your sailing plan to pass along, for what it's worth.

With a 23' 10" waterline, your theoretical hull speed would be about 6.5 knots. For a long passage, I've always used 3/4 of the hull speed for planning purposes. That would be 5 knots. Miami to say, Macapá, Brazil, on the Amazon would be about 2,500 nautical miles, and mostly upwind and against the current and waves. With that hull/keel design, Evan's estimate of 4 kts is generally probably pretty good. But with all the tacking into the wind and the adverse currents, you'll average even less speed toward your goal, I would think.

With that particular boat design, I'd expect sailing to windward in the kind of waves you see on that route would be pretty uncomfortable--a lot of bashing and thumping. It's called "The Thorny Path" for good reasons. If you're set on Miami to Brazil, you might think about flipping it around and motor-sailing there, stopping to enjoy some of the islands along the way, and then sail back to Miami. You'd be sailing downwind, with the waves and current, so it'd be infinitely more comfortable, and you'd probably be able to average 5 kts while sailing. I did a downwind passage last Fall from the USVI to Florida. It was about half the distance you're contemplating, and took us 10-1/2 days of nonstop sailing. The boat had a 32' waterline, and a 7.5 kt theoretical hull speed.

In any event, best of luck, and keep us posted on progress!

[Jazzthing]

roverhi - priceless advice and information, very much appreciated!

ike - not an option. If I listened to my mother I would still be single, living at home, and being spoon fed processed foods.

Keelbolts & i2f - the idea is to build a boat. the idea is much older than the thought of really doing something with it.. Originally I was just gonna dock my project in the Ottawa river for fun sailing on the weekends, maybe even rent it out if it proved worthy, but mostly just to show my friends and brag over some whiskey. Perhaps i'm going through a very early midlife crisis, as I haven't done anything daring in a few years - and i've heard a lot of tall tales of people's adventures in off shore sailing. I caught the bug. But it's still secondary to wanting to build the thing. I have started to rule out sailing to Brazil and am now thinking of doing things a little differently.

Hud3 - Thanks man! Reading your reply was like a breath of fresh air :P Right now I'm trying to convince my wife to let me build here in Venezuela. It would cut my costs in half and I could probably get some hired help for a good price too! I would love to hear more about your trip from USVI to Miami, it seems like i'd be taking a similar path.

[Roy M]

Jazzthing, I've been a boatbuilder and liveaboard for over thirty years. Here is the complete distillation of what I have learned:

1. Murphy's Law jas not been repealed. Make all the plans you want and count on them being thoroughly trashed. Have a variety of backup plans and resource streams and you may accomplish a good number of your intentions.

2. Great boats go on the rocks, just like crappy ones. Seamanship is the factor that saves your butt. Sail, make mistakes, read about the mistakes of others, let the message seep into your cocksure brain that you might screw up or hit a really bad streak of rotten fortune, learn from mistakes and think that something evil and nasty could turn up just around that corner ahead, and anticipate what you would do about it.

3. Keep it simple, sailor.

4. Did I mention that things go bad, at the worst possible time, with the nastiest consequences? Build your boat so that you can disassemble everything, so that you can get to that leaking pump or clogged fuel filter, or the special bolt that just rolled deep into the worst part of the bilge. Remember, there is a special place in Hell for engineers and boatbuilders that create things that can't be easily maintained.

5. Make checklists, modify them, follow them, and teach your crew to do the same. It's a complicated world when you are underway. The tools, the parts, the instructions, and the preventive maintenance schedules all need to be considered.

6. Have fun and follow the dream. Even when things go bad, it's still an adventure, and you never get to go back to the same place again in the same way. Never, ever, stop learning new tricks.

[Hud3]

Originally Posted by Jazzthing

...I have started to rule out sailing to Brazil and am now thinking of doing things a little differently.

Hud3 - Thanks man! Reading your reply was like a breath of fresh air :P Right now I'm trying to convince my wife to let me build here in Venezuela. It would cut my costs in half and I could probably get some hired help for a good price too! I would love to hear more about your trip from USVI to Miami, it seems like i'd be taking a similar path.

I think you're very wise to rule out the Brazil thing. For your first long-distance sailing expedition, traversing the Lesser Antilles, Turks & Caicos, and the Bahamas gives you so many more options for having fun along the way, and also for safety reasons if problems develop and you need a port of refuge. That's still a major voyage by anyone's standards, so you'll have accomplished a great deal by completing it, especially if you do it both ways!

Building the boat in Venezuela makes sense to me, also, if you can source all the materials easily. Then when you head out, you're doing the wonderful downwind run through the island chains, so you can get thoroughly used to the boat and shake out all the "bugs" before turning around to bash your way back, if that's what you choose to do.

Let's see, my son and I delivered my boat from it's summer layup in Grenada to Nevis in nine days of fun island-hopping, with a couple of layover days, and only one overnight sail. We could have done it non-stop in three days. The part of my passage from Nevis to the east coast of Florida (non-stop) would tally up to about 10 days total to get to Miami. So, adding a bit of time since your boat is smaller, I'd say you could do Trinidad to Miami in say 2-1/2 weeks of non-stop sailing, if all went well.

But, you'd be absolutely crazy not to stop and enjoy the islands along the way!