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Old 02-03-2020, 09:36   #46
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Re: New Insurance changes recieved today...yikes

I don’t post very often but this one is too hard to resist. Last week I was hit by lightning, extent of damage is yet to be determined but is substantial. I contacted my insurance company and that’s where the fun has begun. In my application for cover I was wise enough to request new for old on replacement parts and no deductibles. Now when I need to claim I’m advised a deductible of 3900.00 and 30% deductible on replacement parts.
If new cover for lightning is subject to 10% of sum insured I would be up for a deductible of 55000.00
The whole system of insurance is becoming more and more intolerable.
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Old 02-03-2020, 09:36   #47
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Re: New Insurance changes recieved today...yikes

Originally Posted by Argyle38 View Post
Certainly could be the brokers. If they work on dollar value commissions then it would certainly be a lot less valuable for them. I wonder if anyone has any experience contacting underwriters directly. Fourlyons says they pay $150 with Progressive. I would certainly consider contacting them. Progressive is a big company who may do their own underwriting.
You don't ever get to talk to the underwriters. Underwriters are not customer facing. If you contact Progressive directly, you will speak with one of their direct sales agents. Your cost of getting a policy directly from a Progressive sales agent vs a broker (like me) is the same. This is because Progressive pays their own agents commission just like they pay us brokers. No one works for free. The advantage of working with an independent broker is that they can get quotes from multiple companies and compare polices for you, and can translate the insurance-speak into plain english for you.

PS: The Progressive policy excludes liveaboard use.
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Old 02-03-2020, 09:37   #48
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Re: New Insurance changes recieved today...yikes

Originally Posted by TabbyCat View Post
GEICO has made a big change to thier underiting guidelines this year, going into effect March 15, 2020.
This only affects boats moored or travellling to the Caribbean:
GMIC is no longer approving:
1. Full time moorings in the Caribbean during the hurricane season
2. Any trips to the Caribbean that are longer than 4 months in duration

Current GMIC cusotmers who have already received their renewal will not be affected for this policy term, but will be affected at their next renewal.

Thank you for sharing that awareness.

Might you share the definition of the zone that GEICO Marine Insurance Company states as "the Caribbean" and also what is meant by "full time moorings."

The hurricane season is generally defined as 1 June to 30 November which higher risk period has long been both an underwriter's geographical & date specific constraint. The four month duration limit that you noted seems like a new wrinkle which would seem to further constrain GMIC's exposure to just one third of the year, down from six months cruising window, December 1 to May 31. Albeit with climate changing the "hurricane season" and the zone may become redefined in coming years.

How does the four month limit work in practice. Is that four months limitation run as a continuous count calculated from date of entry of the vessel before date of exit of the "Caribbean zone"? Or is that period limit calculated as four months cumulative stay wherein a vessel may enter and exit the "Caribbean zone" numerous times during a policy year, but needs to keep a log of the total days in the "Caribbean zone", say, comparing it to something like the Schengen countries short term visa constraint of a cumulative of 90 days in any 180 day period, with the 180 day period being ANY rolling period. Is the four month limit count based on the policy year, or a calendar year, or perhaps a weather year, e.g. the typical weather year for measuring precipitation is October 1 to October 1 the next year?

Can you provide the specific policy language as to the Caribbean zone constraints both as as to geography and dates and length of time in the Caribbean zone. And could you please provide an example, or examples of how such limits are determined.

Interesting limitations. As always the devil is in the details of an underwriter's policy and as a policy holder one has to be an expert in fully understanding the nuances of such language and how to comply. Misunderstanding by a policy holder can be rather onerous, particularly as to establishing sojourn plans.

Well at least they haven't YET provide additional policy constraints regarding the Bermuda Triangle.

Again thanks for the guidance.
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Old 02-03-2020, 10:02   #49
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Re: New Insurance changes recieved today...yikes

Originally Posted by TabbyCat View Post
Your speculation is on target: It is less cost effective to sell (10) $200 policies than (1) $2,000 policy. Each policy has to be carefully underwritten before coverage is placed. It takes as much labor on the part of the underwriters and agents to write a $200 policy as it does to write a $2,000 policy. And while most liability polices don't have claims, when they do they have one, it is usually huge. Think about it - how many $200 policies would a company have to sell to pay for just one sinking boat with fuel spill and salvage costs, a $500,000 claim?
Thanks Susan, I appreciate you clarity on this. I completely understand the rationale. It's how I would operate if I were a broker as well. Heck, it's how all businesses operate.

Do you have any advice for those who do want a liability-only policy? Clearly some brokers are writing them. I know this is an unfair question, but do you have any recommendations regarding which brokerages to go to for this product?

BTW, I did have a conversation with one of your senior people a few years ago about liability-only policies. I must tell you, I was quite put off by his attitude and rather abrasive dismissal. This is why I appreciate your clarity and candor.
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
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Old 02-03-2020, 10:06   #50
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Re: New Insurance changes recieved today...yikes

If your claim is big enough to justify it, hire an independent adjuster to work for you. They are former insurance adjusters that free lance and take a percentage of what they get over what the insurance companies offer. They know the system and how to beat it, at least as much as possible.
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Old 02-03-2020, 11:02   #51
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Re: New Insurance changes recieved today...yikes

Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
it used to be that only Hurricanes were "named" but now tropical storms are also named. Whats next ..... named rain showers ?
NOAA has defined criteria for naming storms/hurricanes, TWC, NY Times and others just use "What Headlines will Sell".
Maybe get the broker to state IN WRITING whose definition the underwriter uses.
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Old 02-03-2020, 13:12   #52
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Re: New Insurance changes recieved today...yikes

I talked to my marine broker recently (early Feb.) at the Vancouver Boat Show. She stated many concerning developments in the marine insurance industry in general. Things like: possible denial of future coverage (renewal) for any claims (including your first claim and even for small claims); difficulty getting coverage from any new (to you) carrier if denied renewal because of a recent claim; increased deductibles; increased premiums; additional exemptions and exclusions, etc., etc. None of them good news for the policy holder!

Regardless of your policy, she advised not making any claims unless it is a large claim (your cost to deal with it yourself would be prohibitive) due to the potential "renewal" issues discussed above.
Self insurance is fine if you can afford to "look after it" yourself or deal with the disposal costs if you suffer a "write off". However, unless you are "protected" from liability because of your financial situation, age, and/or other factors, and you don't care about the potential impact your actions may have on an "innocent" third party, then one situation where you are found liable could drastically "change your life" without coverage. Maybe the actual risk is small, but the potential consequences could be devasting. JMHO.
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Old 02-03-2020, 14:28   #53
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Re: New Insurance changes recieved today...yikes

Originally Posted by TabbyCat View Post
Uninsured Boaters coverage is one of the most commonly misunderstood marine insurance terms:
  • Uninsured Boaters (UB) is NOT the same as Uninsured Motorists like you have on your car
  • UB does NOT pay for damage to your boat
  • UB only pays for medical claims (injuries) to people onboard your boat if you are hit by an uninsured boater
If you want to cover your Hull against damage by an uninsured boat, then you must purchase hull insurance on your boat. If an uninsured boater hits you, then your hull coverage pays, although you will end up paying your deductible.
If the other boat that hits you has third party liability coverage, that is always the best option to pursue, since the deductible is usually very minimal or often even $0.
Actually what you described is also what most uninsured motorist clause's cover. Has to be one of the most deceptively named and misunderstood insurance clause's out there. On the flip side, if you have collision insurance on your car it generally covers your damage no matter whose fault and no matter if the other party is insured.
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