Master Mariner

[Pelagic]

Hi Adelie,
I don't think we are that far off in our opinions.

As I said, context is what is important as is mutual respect.

If we are discussing a topic on a professional level (say structural engineering) and one contributor advises his thoughts are based on his background as a structural engineer, then that does add value to the conversation.

However if he simply uses his title and training to try and ridicule another poster, that is shameful and lazy.

I am always amazed here on CF when some "real expert" takes the time to reduce complex issues down into layman's terms for the rest of us to follow.
Knowing their credentials within that positive context, is not a bad thing.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

I think someone who has achieved a MM license from a credible country with high qualification standards, deserves a bit of respect.

It shows that they once demonstrated a lot of discipline and a deep understanding and curiosity of marine related subjects.

Whether they eventually lost that level of curiosity as management pressures morphed them into political, belligerent bullies, cannot be something you can generalise.

There are good and bad in every profession, but you should respect their professional achievements rather than indulge in some sort of reverse snobbery.

My point is that someone who claims to be a "master mariner" which appears to be a vague colloquial term with no official weight, immediately causes me to be skeptical. No "Foreign Going Master" that I know would ever use that term. I am not a "Foreign Going Master" but routinely attend their meetings in Toronto as a guest and have been a guest speaker. I know several of them quite well. You are correct "A Foreign Going Master" is a title due respect.

When that same person in the same breath also claims to be an RYA Ocean Master .... well that seems redundant.

PS. If anyone is interested I have an old copy of the Canadian "Foreign Going Master Exam" in pdf. Apparently can't post a pdf. here but will gladly email to anyone who pm's me with an email address. Pretty sure I could not pass it even with a copy in hand

[Uricanejack]

Canada.
India.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

My point is that someone who claims to be a "master mariner" which appears to be a vague colloquial term with no official weight, immediately causes me to be skeptical. No "Foreign Going Master" that I know would ever use that term. I am not a "Foreign Going Master" but routinely attend their meetings in Toronto as a guest and have been a guest speaker. I know several of them quite well. You are correct "A Foreign Going Master" is a title due respect.

When that same person in the same breath also claims to be an RYA Ocean Master .... well that seems redundant.

PS. If anyone is interested I have an old copy of the Canadian "Foreign Going Master Exam" in pdf. Apparently can't post a pdf. here but will gladly email to anyone who pm's me with an email address. Pretty sure I could not pass it even with a copy in hand

You are correct MM is more of a generalized colloquial term going back to the 13th century

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_mariner


But it is still used in meetings and associations where Foreign Going licenses with unlimited tonnage and various "endorsement" of specialised vessels is just too specific and wordy to be used in international company

http://www.mastermariners.org.au/

I have been invited to speak at some in Australia, London and Singapore about the challenges of regulating pilotage and manning requirements of SuperYachts over 1500 tons where MM was used loosely

Years back,when I went thru the Canadian marine college, they used different terms than they do today. If I remember correctly, when writing exams for ON1 they gave you the option to challenge and take the "Master Mariner" exams, or maybe it was called Foreign Going exams...(can't remember).... which I successfully completed, but because I chose not to serve additional time on deep sea ships. My command endoresments were limited.

These days there is more of an international agreement to standardize both terms and the syllabus of all levels of marine certification, but in the 70's, national terms and standards were more the norm.

[deblen]

https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafet...n_Regulations:

Len

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

My point is that someone who claims to be a "master mariner" which appears to be a vague colloquial term with no official weight, immediately causes me to be skeptical. No "Foreign Going Master" that I know would ever use that term. I am not a "Foreign Going Master" but routinely attend their meetings in Toronto as a guest and have been a guest speaker. I know several of them quite well. You are correct "A Foreign Going Master" is a title due respect.

When that same person in the same breath also claims to be an RYA Ocean Master .... well that seems redundant.

PS. If anyone is interested I have an old copy of the Canadian "Foreign Going Master Exam" in pdf. Apparently can't post a pdf. here but will gladly email to anyone who pm's me with an email address. Pretty sure I could not pass it even with a copy in hand

Master, Foreign Going is an obsolete ticket. Master Mariner is the highest level Transport Canada ticket, as it is in many countries.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Master, Foreign Going is an obsolete ticket. Master Mariner is the highest level Transport Canada ticket, as it is in many countries.

Thanks Lodesman
Out of curiosity i checked the Canadian levels now published and you are correct.
Master Mariner is still used.

https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafet...ertif-1323.htm

https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafet...n_Regulations:

But I believe there are "equivalencies" that are still recognised.

It is all about meeting the specific syllabuses for each endoresment and that changes as does the technology

While all this is beurocratic symantecs, in the context of CF, a professional license tells me that the holder sees things more from a legal and commercial perspective with nuances that only a marine lawyer would appreciate.

We are basically taught to protect our employer and our license.

The greatest contributors here on CF have terrific sailing experiences, not licenses which are actually restrictive in nature.

[Jim Cate]

RE the chap who uses the title "master mariner" to back up his opinions on CF: I wonder if when he posts in fishing forums he claims to be a Master Baiter?

Jim

[PatMc57]

Originally Posted by David M

One who has a USCG issued unlimited tonnage, unlimited oceans masters license is not a common thing. Some who do not have that will still call themselves an "unlimited master", especially in the world of yachts where there is a degree of pretentiousness typically not found in the maritime industry.

Well said

[Pete O Static]

It has been my experience that those who shout the loudest, usually have the least to say.

[frozenhawaiian]

Originally Posted by StuM

Colloquial reference to a holder of an Master Unlimited ticket.

this, and as an aside in a room full of purely recreational sailors I would absolutely put a lot more store in the opinion of someone with an unlimited masters license.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by frozenhawaiian

this, and as an aside in a room full of purely recreational sailors I would absolutely put a lot more store in the opinion of someone with an unlimited masters license.

I wouldn't..... most holders of 'unlimited master's licenses' would know four fifths of not very much about matters maritime as they pertain to yachts and small craft.

[frozenhawaiian]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

I wouldn't..... most holders of 'unlimited master's licenses' would know four fifths of not very much about matters maritime as they pertain to yachts and small craft.

suit yourself, I'm not going to have an argument about it.

[CSY Man]

Originally Posted by frozenhawaiian

suit yourself, I'm not going to have an argument about it.

I’d say an Unlimited Master knows 98% about operating your yacht.,

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by CSY Man

I’d say an Unlimited Master knows 98% about operating your yacht.,

Yeah, but the real ones don't seem to need to advertise the fact to all and sundry.