Long-Term Outlook for Cruising

[jrbogie]

Originally Posted by w1651

I have seen these threads come and go and have to admit the best advice I ever got out of them was this. Just Go!

what he said.

[w1651]

Originally Posted by jwing

Sure. That's easy to say, but not always possible or practical to do. Many posts on this thread ignore the original question and describe what cruising is like now.

I believe that it is prudent to try to anticipate what cruising will be like in the interval of the future when one is likely to be able to cruise. For instance, in 10 years, will The Bahamas cruising experience be more like what it is today or will it be more like what the BVI experience is today? If the former, I might aim my plans at Bahamian cruises; if the later, I'd need to set my sights further away.

Will the east coast of the USA follow in Florida's footsteps regarding regulation? If so, then that would change my plans, too.

Just go and find out. But I will suggest go somewhere where the people aren't. Like Honduras, Guatemala, Columbia, Argentina,Brazil, Africa, etc.....

[Puget Dan]

3 years ago our daughter and son in law convinced us to buy a 1997 38' Horstman TriStar trimaran so we could sail in the Northwest with them as the kids grew up. Yes at times it is crowded but only in the easy places to go. I have sailed in this area for 35 years and it is less polluted now than then. Don't wait too long, let the kids learn the love of sailing and everything (hard work) that comes with owning a boat. PS they want to buy the boat from us in a few years and sail for 6 months when the 3 kids are between 10 and 12.
Good luck!

[reed1v]

Originally Posted by w1651

Just go and find out. But I will suggest go somewhere where the people aren't. Like Honduras, Guatemala, Columbia, Argentina,Brazil, Africa, etc.....

kObviously advice from someone who has never sailed beyond their harbor. As far as the US, more regulations, higher prices, and less mooring spaces. Up and down the eastern seaboard costs for a transient slip are now hovering around
$50-100 per night, or about $1500 to $3000 per month. Obviously as condos take over marinas prices probably will double in 10 years. Boatyards will become scare as shoreline lands skyrocket in value.

As per clueless above, most of Africa now is extremely dangerous for cruisers. As world poverty rises, rich whites will fine themselves irresistible targets. While many places seem wild in Brazil, they are not. All the lands are owned by someone. The days of landing in some pristine bay to yourselves is long gone in most of the world. Thanks to mass, worldwide communications, even the most primitive folks now know about rich cruisers, about the value of objects, and the need to kill any witnesses. Its only going to get more so in 10 years from now.

The world is entering a new feudal times. Extremes in poverty and wealth will make cruisers convenient means to score fast money, both in the US and abroad.

[redhead]

Pardon me but your disagreement with a post doesn't entitle you to start denigrating people.

Who knows, it might just happen to you.

Outta here.

[reed1v]

Originally Posted by redhead

Pardon me but your disagreement with a post doesn't entitle you to start denigrating people.

Who knows, it might just happen to you.

Outta here.

Huh? It was obvious the poster has not been sailing along the african coast. We have. It is not safe. Diseases, uncharted reefs, fishing boats that do not use lights at night, and rampant bakshish when in harbors is the norm. And that is the nicest parts. Northern parts of East Africa really are lawless when it comes to wealthy sailors parading in front of starving people. So sorry if that is denigrating to whomever, but it is reality.

[Caribbeachbum]

Originally Posted by reed1v

kObviously advice from someone who has never sailed beyond their harbor. As far as the US, more regulations, higher prices, and less mooring spaces. Up and down the eastern seaboard costs for a transient slip are now hovering around
$50-100 per night, or about $1500 to $3000 per month. Obviously as condos take over marinas prices probably will double in 10 years. Boatyards will become scare as shoreline lands skyrocket in value.

As per clueless above, most of Africa now is extremely dangerous for cruisers. As world poverty rises, rich whites will fine themselves irresistible targets. While many places seem wild in Brazil, they are not. All the lands are owned by someone. The days of landing in some pristine bay to yourselves is long gone in most of the world. Thanks to mass, worldwide communications, even the most primitive folks now know about rich cruisers, about the value of objects, and the need to kill any witnesses. Its only going to get more so in 10 years from now.

The world is entering a new feudal times. Extremes in poverty and wealth will make cruisers convenient means to score fast money, both in the US and abroad.

I'm pretty fond of the world I live in, and I've seen a lot of it. That one you live in, though, seems fraught with fear and misery. Think I'll stay in mine.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by reed1v

kObviously advice from someone who has never sailed beyond their harbor. As far as the US, more regulations, higher prices, and less mooring spaces. Up and down the eastern seaboard costs for a transient slip are now hovering around
$50-100 per night, or about $1500 to $3000 per month. Obviously as condos take over marinas prices probably will double in 10 years. Boatyards will become scare as shoreline lands skyrocket in value.

As per clueless above, most of Africa now is extremely dangerous for cruisers. As world poverty rises, rich whites will fine themselves irresistible targets. While many places seem wild in Brazil, they are not. All the lands are owned by someone. The days of landing in some pristine bay to yourselves is long gone in most of the world. Thanks to mass, worldwide communications, even the most primitive folks now know about rich cruisers, about the value of objects, and the need to kill any witnesses. Its only going to get more so in 10 years from now.

The world is entering a new feudal times. Extremes in poverty and wealth will make cruisers convenient means to score fast money, both in the US and abroad.

You seem a very negative sad sort of fellow

The world is bigger, brighter, safer than your proportions it to be.

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by reed1v

.............
.................... As far as the US, more regulations, higher prices, and less mooring spaces. Up and down the eastern seaboard costs for a transient slip are now hovering around $50-100 per night, or about $1500 to $3000 per month. ...............................

Your numbers are very accurate by my observations; however, this expense does not represent a form of cruising with which I am familiar. We've taken more than two dozen cruises transiting the US East Coast and our marina costs at today's rates average $500/month, far less than the $2,250/month that you indicate (mid point of the $1500 to $3000 estimate).

Once again, I'm not disputing your numbers, but just submitting a common and different mode of cruising. We rarely pay for a transient rate, but opt for a weekly or a month's stay at times. These are often times when the temperatures are too hot in the summers if we are not north of New York City or too cold if we're north of Florida in the winter. In addition, we often take a weekly rate in a favorite port like Charleston or Boston.

A great number of days are spent at anchor with access to a free dinghy dock or sometimes a $2 to $10 daily dinghy dock fee that comes with some shore amenities.

The regulations in Florida have had little affect on our anchoring practices. We are aware of anchorages that we frequently use in Florida at 35 to 50 mile intervals where we have never been approached or questioned by any authority. We are in Florida now and I've been sailing Florida waters since the 1950's.

The most dramatic change by Florida regulations that have had an affect on our cruising has been St. Augustine. We used to regularly anchor in St. Augustine in the 1970's and '80's, but this cruising ground was lost to us in the 1990's because of the dangerous crowd of poorly anchored derelict boats.
Now we're back with a $20/day mooring opportunity that we take for a few days with shore amenities.

OK, 'no question we live cheaply, but that's part of the beauty of live aboard cruising that still exists today for those that are not tied to marinas and the high density tourist spots.

[TheThunderbird]

There is a way to everyone

[Training Wheels]

Okay, that's it! I'm cancelling our upcoming cruising plans and going back to work..............NOT!

[captlloyd]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

Your numbers are very accurate by my observations; however, this expense does not represent a form of cruising with which I am familiar. We've taken more than two dozen cruises transiting the US East Coast and our marina costs at today's rates average $500/month, far less than the $2,250/month that you indicate (mid point of the $1500 to $3000 estimate).

Once again, I'm not disputing your numbers, but just submitting a common and different mode of cruising. We rarely pay for a transient rate, but opt for a weekly or a month's stay at times. These are often times when the temperatures are too hot in the summers if we are not north of New York City or too cold if we're north of Florida in the winter. In addition, we often take a weekly rate in a favorite port like Charleston or Boston.

A great number of days are spent at anchor with access to a free dinghy dock or sometimes a $2 to $10 daily dinghy dock fee that comes with some shore amenities.

The regulations in Florida have had little affect on our anchoring practices. We are aware of anchorages that we frequently use in Florida at 35 to 50 mile intervals where we have never been approached or questioned by any authority. We are in Florida now and I've been sailing Florida waters since the 1950's.

The most dramatic change by Florida regulations that have had an affect on our cruising has been St. Augustine. We used to regularly anchor in St. Augustine in the 1970's and '80's, but this cruising ground was lost to us in the 1990's because of the dangerous crowd of poorly anchored derelict boats.
Now we're back with a $20/day mooring opportunity that we take for a few days with shore amenities.

OK, 'no question we live cheaply, but that's part of the beauty of live aboard cruising that still exists today for those that are not tied to marinas and the high density tourist spots.

Your post came just in time, I was about ready to go suck on my exhaust-pipe due to all this negativity. Wow, I feel so fortunate not to be them.

[JTHAW]

to the op, I would not wait 10 yrs. too late...
reality is often taken for negativism
doesn't change reality
sure I'll adapt and change, the glass ain't half full or empty...it is what it is..
I'll live under the radar and find great places..yes the waters around the US are cleaner now than the '70's, if your in your 40's or less in yrs...you have to be optimistic..There are still great places to see and sail to, perhaps farther and fewer on reflection. I hope to find them once again...and have a great time..My frame of experience is from 35 yrs ago though...probably most reading this don't have that past experience...that's not good or bad...its just,... it is what it is..
here's the deal wether you like it or not...its just reality .
I wouldn't go near Africa or south America in sailboat. ok Grenada's close enough.. and I loved the DR back in the day....I've spent time and have family in S.A...sorry , those above who suggest you might cruise there in paradise in the future are obviously...well...misinformed to put it kindly..again I've been there...love the people...loved my trips..Beautiful countries, but with 50% in desperate poverty, lots of dirty water and military with automatic weapons to control the masses with impunity....I blended into the native population almost seamlessly...ain't no fugly American..dark skinned..with a good rudimentary non command of the language, Spanish and porto gese, desire to return?,,,ummm well not so much. Are there niches and small places to love? yes, are there some relatively small areas to cruise to and enjoy? sure....is the general exposure to danger of all different kinds worth it? not for me... hey its just reality..the worlds changing...and generally, it ain't for the better...it is what it is...i'll deal with it. if you can't that's your problem, but don't blame me for being a realist

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by reed1v

The golden age of cruising was in the 1960-1980s era. Cheap, safe, and everywhere accommodating. That is all gone. As the world descends into chaos cruising will be decidedly risky if not life threatening.

A close friend recently revisited her old cruising grounds along the indonesian chain of islands. Was slaughtered the second night she made landfall. This as opposed to thirty-five years ago when she use to single hand among those islands and thought nothing about hopping ashore to sleep, meet the locals, and paint.

The picture gets grimmer along the african coast, the south american eastern coastline, and along the southern mediterranean.

Seriously...the golden age was cruising with the "Red Menace" ever present ready to nuke the world?

The risks are no more today. Probably far less. Back then it might be months before anyone realized you were dead and came looking.

[scareygary]

I'll admit that I'm not a LONG distance cruiser, but have spent decades cruising summers in the San Juans and Gulf Islands in smaller boats. My observation is that, along with pressures created by population increases, big changes include the amount of waterfront properties that are now private and closed to cruisers (coves and little anchorages where one cannont get ashore), and the length of the average vessel. Government docks and mooring balls that once could hold 20 smaller boats can now accommodate about 10, due to the increasing SIZE of so many boats. I have not seen increases in dock space, nor more mooring balls on 'park' islands. As for government 'regulations' being the problem, I suspect that may be true is some areas, but, imho, most regulation comes about as attempted answers to problems created by a few folks who pollute, harass, or otherwise, are pretty dang inconsiderate and selfish. Just remember, that if people lived by the Golden Rule, we'd need a lot fewer rules! I don't blame government much for the problems caused by other people....Far too easy of a target. They are mostly trying to RESPOND to issues already created, whether that be pollution, noise, etc.