Lagoon Catamaran Smashed To Bits

[moseriw]

So, IF it happened as drawn and he wanted to enter the port with say 6 knots and the engines stopped at the mentioned point and we think he was adrift with 3 knots - which is to much (1-1,5 knots are reasonable) then he had two minutes - or four to throw the anchor.

Breakdown decision:
can I sail it out? yes/no
can I anchor? yes/no

Decision time 10-20 seconds.

And that is the reason why unexperienced people should not be allowed to be in command.

Sorry, it is not my intention to blame somebody I just want to bring in some considerations for other to think about their options in a case like this.

As "captain" one should always have a plan B,C AND D in mind longe before it happens.
Others are simply not qualified.

btw.
I had the same situation with a broken impeller when I left a marina AND a slipping anchor!
Impeller was changed within 12 minutes and the tugboat was on standby.

2. Wanted to sail close, around 300m to a leeward cape and the engine went out. The genoa and an emergency jibe did it.

This, just in case someone thinks I am a "couch potato"

[moseriw]

Alistair242 : swell, check out the video posted.

[Chotu]

In light of the geometry of the drawing up thread, my comment about windward ability is irrelevant.

If they were that close to the Lee shore, an immediate anchor dump would have been the plan.

Do electric windlasses have that option? I usually just see people slowly dropping chain with the push of a button. Can you disengage a clutch on them to get chain out quickly in an emergency?

On my manual windlass, I can dump 200ft of chain in 10-15 seconds by opening it up with no resistance and letting it fly out.

[moseriw]

Do electric windlasses have that option?
YES ALL!


Funny: B&G hase one of these useless computers. It took me three times twenty minutes to find the option to switch the windlass to on.


Thank ou for all that software scrap!
btw: I'am in the IT-Bizz since 1986 as system engineer and coder.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Chotu

In light of the geometry of the drawing up thread, my comment about windward ability is irrelevant.

If they were that close to the Lee shore, an immediate anchor dump would have been the plan.

Do electric windlasses have that option? I usually just see people slowly dropping chain with the push of a button. Can you disengage a clutch on them to get chain out quickly in an emergency?

On my manual windlass, I can dump 200ft of chain in 10-15 seconds by opening it up with no resistance and letting it fly out.

With my electric I can release the clutch and free drop like that. Even when anchoring on a windy day I've never felt the need though, as it'll drop close to 100 ft/minute under power.

Most electric windlasses have a clutch to release, but not all. The slow and weak rope only windlass (not a capstan) my boat came with was power down only.

[capn_billl]

From this information the first bad choice was to try for a tight marina during a lightning storm with adverse wind, and no backup plan. The chain of failure started with this bad decision.

It's easy to say we are dogpiling, but it brings up a valid, and important point.

Most people operate with the assumption everything will go perfectly.

Murphy's law says the opposite.

It's late, the Captain is exhausted, and worse as they arrive in port, the weather takes a bad turn.

So drop anchor, and wait it out? Or...

As most do, try to tough it through.

Everytime I've seen this situation, it has always ended poorly, even with skilled Captain, and no unfortunate lightning strike.


The wind pushes you into a piling, or another docked boat.

The engine sucks up floating debris.

The sloshing stirs up sludge in the diesel tank.

Or the engine computer decades this is the time to go on strike.

Evem if nothing unusual happens, you have a frustrated tired crew, chasing lines blowing in the wind, it takes several tries, and repeated bumps in the gel coat to get close enough to tie off, everyone is angry, and screaming, and something will be broken, maybe a crew severely injured.

Or drop anchor where you are.

Boats not broken, put lights out, and take a nap until storm finishes.

I had this discussion just a few months ago. The tide was really ripping, and high winds. I decided my chances without an expensive fiberglass bill was small. So I refused to do it.

I stopped at a wide curve in the channel, and dropped the anchor.

Other boats seeing me suddenly decided to do the same.

It was a peaceful night. The storm raged, we were not in an ideal place, but we were safe. We could see our home slip just a few hundred yards away

The next day, I motored peacefully back to our slip in calm conditions.

Sometimes the best decision is to do nothing.

[capn_billl]

Originally Posted by moseriw

Hard to say what exactly happened. Could be a hint to enter ports with a bit of sailgear up until one is in the pond. The only information we have is: "Whilst the boat was at the entrance of the marina, it was struck by lightning,..."

So it depends where it has been hitted. With sails up there would have been a chance to divert to NW to the save anchorage and call the charter company with one of the nine mobiles to tow it in.
Even if there are rocks at the emergency anchorage below the anchor will bite in somewhere.



It is easy with a car. Hit the brake and are on the safe side but on a boat in can take one or two minutes tu sort your options out. Time you may not have.


The worst option is to run scared and try to enter a port. Always interested in survey reports like the ones from the german BSH.

I bet there is a lot of "wantonly negligent" in this case with an unexperieced "captain" in charge but we can not claim as the informations on the case are ZERO.

From this information, the best choice would have been a hard turn to port, followed by immediately cranking the main.

Assuming electric power is down at that point it would need cranked by hand.

Locking the 1st reef, and cranking to that point would be enough for steerage, and the wind would be a beam reach.

He only needed 30 yards to clear the jetty corner, then immediately drop anchor in the grey area between marina, and shore to the west.

Still a lee shore, but the beach is survivable, and plenty of scope.

[moseriw]

capn_billl Please remember! What I draw are only SUGGESTIONS!!!

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

With my electric I can release the clutch and free drop like that. Even when anchoring on a windy day I've never felt the need though, as it'll drop close to 100 ft/minute under power.

Most electric windlasses have a clutch to release, but not all. The slow and weak rope only windlass (not a capstan) my boat came with was power down only.

On at least the Lagoon and FP catamarans I've sailed on you have to get yourself in a pretty uncomfortable position to release and then re-engage that clutch while the chain rips out. And it's pretty rare that a charter brief would include how to use that clutch. As a somewhat related aside, pretty annoyingly all the Lagoon and FP catamarans I've been on the windlass doesn't operate unless one engine is on (port on some boats, starboard on others). Another thing that isn't normally briefed before going out on a charter.

[moseriw]

And it's pretty rare that a charter brief would include how to use that clutch.


Yes, as this is the duty of the "captain" as he should know how to operate a boat an has to brief his crew!

Usually you do not need a clutch as you can bypass the windlass. Simply get the chain off the windlass.

[double u]

Originally Posted by Chotu

... I usually just see people slowly dropping chain with the push of a button. ....

correction, Chotu:
"I usually only see dilettants ...

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

From this information the first bad choice was to try for a tight marina during a lightning storm with adverse wind, and no backup plan. The chain of failure started with this bad decision.



It's easy to say we are dogpiling, but it brings up a valid, and important point.



Most people operate with the assumption everything will go perfectly.



Murphy's law says the opposite.



It's late, the Captain is exhausted, and worse as they arrive in port, the weather takes a bad turn.



So drop anchor, and wait it out? Or...



As most do, try to tough it through.



Everytime I've seen this situation, it has always ended poorly, even with skilled Captain, and no unfortunate lightning strike.





The wind pushes you into a piling, or another docked boat.



The engine sucks up floating debris.



The sloshing stirs up sludge in the diesel tank.



Or the engine computer decades this is the time to go on strike.



Evem if nothing unusual happens, you have a frustrated tired crew, chasing lines blowing in the wind, it takes several tries, and repeated bumps in the gel coat to get close enough to tie off, everyone is angry, and screaming, and something will be broken, maybe a crew severely injured.



Or drop anchor where you are.



Boats not broken, put lights out, and take a nap until storm finishes.



I had this discussion just a few months ago. The tide was really ripping, and high winds. I decided my chances without an expensive fiberglass bill was small. So I refused to do it.



I stopped at a wide curve in the channel, and dropped the anchor.



Other boats seeing me suddenly decided to do the same.



It was a peaceful night. The storm raged, we were not in an ideal place, but we were safe. We could see our home slip just a few hundred yards away



The next day, I motored peacefully back to our slip in calm conditions.



Sometimes the best decision is to do nothing.

Certainly, hove to out to sea with some sea room, or anchored if you have a reasonable place to do it (NOT off a lee shore in a storm), may be prudent places to ride out a storm. But I can't fault this guy for trying to go into a snug harbour through an entry which would have been ok but for a freak lightning strike just at the worst possible moment. Anchoring wasn't an option. I don't think that in the absence of hindsight it was a "bad decision".

Now whether he might have gotten an anchor out faster or got a sail up I don't know - I wasn't there. On my boat I keep a kedge ready to throw out on 10 seconds notice in an emergency. But I'm guessing there was precious little time, and the crew was in shock and possibly deafened and perhaps even blinded by the lightning strike. I think I would give the guy a break.

[Hermia II]

With just the jib set (they could have rolled it out in seconds) they could have easily sailed into the harbor and dropped the hook close to the SE-pier.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Hermia II

With just the jib set (they could have rolled it out in seconds) they could have easily sailed into the harbor and dropped the hook close to the SE-pier.

Serious case of brain freeze methinks.. "Oh F***.. Oh F***.. Oh F***.!!!

[sailormed]

The original information I read on the internet when this happened (so it must be true ) was that the captain received the offer to be towed into the harbour. He turned down this offer because he could just use the sails to get safe into the harbour.
Just another information to enrich this CF thread.