insane marina charge

[grantmc]

Originally Posted by kayakerChuck

The workers are paid by the hour, and if they have not done this before, will typically spend a whole bunch of time reading the instructions and looking at similar installs on the internet. It's very bad for them to mess up- if they put a hole in the wrong place, they just created unbillable hours or ran up your bill some more. They probably had to run to the hardware store, etc. (Even well stocked shops don't have everything.)

I run a marine canvas shop. When I'm quoting jobs I have not done before, I very carefully explain that I can't give a good estimate of hours/costs. Then, I will take what seems like a reasonable number and double it. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose.

In complete agreement with Chuck's comments. The service provider has to ensure the quality level, and asking people who've never done such a task before, well it's going to take them some time. They might even have needed to get in a tool or two for the job that they don't ever expect to use again. And as well as trips to the shop, they needed to check the delivery is complete, there's job/pier risk assessment, health and safety, quality control and inspection, potential that customer comes back with an issue and consequential legal issues, and hopefully some profit too.

And ok so they took longer than the supplier gave as a guideline. It wasn't excessively longer. Could have been worse, could be me having to pay.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by CSY Man

Picture of bimini?

Picture of Bikini?

[SailingHarmonie]

There is always the possibility for negotiation. Having installed these, the factory’s estimate is spot on.

I know some unfortunate people have lives other than their boat, but this is exactly what happens when you are not present to supervise. Even if you can only stop by after hours to have a walk-around, that helps. It’s always possible to install a surveillance camera. If it was me, I’d be sure the marina manager knew it was there, that might save an uncomfortable confrontation later. Without such protections it is very common to be charged billable hours for frequent smoke breaks, and epoxy drying time.

[DirtPete]

Unless you a paying them to troubleshoot, you should always get a quote.

[Fore and Aft]

Nuru 05 the problem is that the salesman told you it would take 20-30 hours without physically stepping foot on your boat. Would you have still purchased the Bimini if he had said 50 hours installation time.
Then you never bothered to ask the tradesmen their estimate of time. Obviously they would have laughed at what the salesman told you. How can he estimate the job without even seeing the boat?
Cheers

[nuru05]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Nuru 05 the problem is that the salesman told you it would take 20-30 hours without physically stepping foot on your boat. Would you have still purchased the Bimini if he had said 50 hours installation time.
Then you never bothered to ask the tradesmen their estimate of time. Obviously they would have laughed at what the salesman told you. How can he estimate the job without even seeing the boat?
Cheers

It wasn't a salesman who gave me this number it was their in house engineer who does the design work for their custom stuff. I've sent him multiple pictures of my boat and they have done the exact same system on identical boats before. He said that based on the instillations they've done ours was on the easier side. Honestly if he had said it was 50 hours I wouldn't have had the marina do it and instead flown out and done it ourselves. I'm still struggling to understand how it took as many hours as they stated (they said it actually took them 71 hours and they only billed me for 50) to literally bolt 4 legs down, especially when they had unrestricted access to the underside, to put it in perspective the engineer also designed my solar arch and said the installation of that would have been significantly more time consuming and complex and my wife and I did it in about 35 hours

[Symphony]

Originally Posted by grantmc

In complete agreement with Chuck's comments. The service provider has to ensure the quality level, and asking people who've never done such a task before, well it's going to take them some time. They might even have needed to get in a tool or two for the job that they don't ever expect to use again. And as well as trips to the shop, they needed to check the delivery is complete, there's job/pier risk assessment, health and safety, quality control and inspection, potential that customer comes back with an issue and consequential legal issues, and hopefully some profit too..

I would smile and pay the bill as it seems the installation was a success. As you know, every boat is slightly different, and installing new equipment can be risky when one needs to drill/ cut/ glue/ especially something as large and exposed as a bimini. Measure 4 times cut once - a good job on an unknown task takes time. A crap job will decrease your vessel value, while a well installed bimini will obviously increase your comfort and the boat’s appeal.

[DShant]

Nuru most of these answers are BS in my opinion. They are hanging you out to dry. I am careful to try not to get into these situations but nonetheless I have had them several times. My approach is to try to negotiate based on reason and with some back up. You have a good argument with the builder saying it should take 20 hours or whatever. You should get that in writing and present it if you can.
You have to assume the marina has competent workers especially at the rates they seem to be charging so you should be getting it done in like 10% more time if they needed to learn something.

What I usually do is get a price higher than I want but that I can stomach and let them know what that is if they won't negotiate and why you think it is correct.
Then I tell them I will pay that and that's all. Then just sit tight, and don't negotiate. Sooner or later they will take it rather than fight. I know they can lien your boat etc. but that takes time and money. They don't want to. If you are reasonable they will take the money and you will both feel bad.

[Knotical]

Originally Posted by kayakerChuck

The workers are paid by the hour, and if they have not done this before, will typically spend a whole bunch of time reading the instructions and looking at similar installs on the internet. It's very bad for them to mess up- if they put a hole in the wrong place, they just created unbillable hours or ran up your bill some more. They probably had to run to the hardware store, etc. (Even well stocked shops don't have everything.)

I run a marine canvas shop. When I'm quoting jobs I have not done before, I very carefully explain that I can't give a good estimate of hours/costs. Then, I will take what seems like a reasonable number and double it. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose.

This is not too different than a DIY owner doing the job himself; how can they expect to be paid “professional” prices then?

[OneBoatman]

The $7800 fee must have been for design and build from scratch? I would say you gotten take for a bit of a ride, roughly 2K. I would estimate a std bimini of Sunbrella with a vinyl skylight and the frame from scratch should be more like 5K even considering the Bidenomic economy we now have in the USA. Some parts of the US maybe a little less and others maybe a little more. A joining piece made to zip to an existing dodger might contribute another $300-400. You are paying something for design, whether a common, or less common boat, materials, bending, usually a 3-piece frame, fitting and sewing the canopy and mounting the 4 attachment plates which secure it to the combing and/or deck surround. Round stern boats are often more than that of a conventional aft cockpit boat, as proper attachment areas are limited and must be carefully selected. Experience matters, but it would be quite a stretch for a boat tech to take more than an hour or so to set it up since the deck plates, frame and bending is completed at the beginning of the build.

[BlueH2Obound]

Can you clarify what the $7800 was for?
Was this for design, materials, fabrication and installation of the bimini support structure and bimini? If so, the $7,800 bill is probably reasonable.

Was the cost of the Bimini and support extra?

Or was it just for installation?

If it was just for installation of a bimini and support structure that you had already purchased, you got taken for a serious ride!

Be prepared to leave or be forced out of the marina if you contest the bill, but personally, it at all feasible, my transom would be the last view that had of my boat. Plus I would FACTUALLY post pics of the repairs, and a copy of the invoice to help the next person make a more informed decision as to whether or not to use this marina for any work.

[Shaneesprit]

Pay up - you really have little choice (after questioning the price)
Remember to leave them a Google Maps review.

[kayakerChuck]

Originally Posted by Knotical

This is not too different than a DIY owner doing the job himself; how can they expect to be paid “professional” prices then?

Usually, you are paying for the "professional" to have learned at the school of hard knocks on other peoples' boats. In this case, the contractor was clear that they had not done this before, so they are learning on this job. The same as a reasonably competent DIY person.

If this shop installs another of these biminis, I'd expect the labor to drop by 30 to 50%.

[Ltfdrebbin]

Not sure if it helps or hurts, but for a reference point I paid a marina one year ago to install an Atlantic Hardtop on my Hunter 44. I was charged $5200.
For this and other issues with them, I paid my bill, left the marina and will never return.

[Morris Wilson]

I cant figure out what ever this new system is[but I solved all those problems by doing everthing myself. It is theONLY way you get what you want for only twice what you thought it would cost.QUOTE=nuru05;3885277]I'm not quite sure what to do here. I had my marina install a Bimini from atlantic towers over the winter and I just got the bill. I knew it was going to be kind of expensive but nothing like this. I spoke to the people at the factory and they said that "2 people should be able to DIY install it in about 1-2 days or 20-30 hours" what I got back from the marina was 51 hours for a total of about $7800. The engineer at the factory looked at a picture of my boat and said it looked like a very simple installation that would be on the easy side of what they see so they should have easily done it in 1-2 days

I don't want to be unreasonable but this seems insane to me. They have all the tools and equipment right at their fingertips and they are a literal boat builder so I would assume they should be able to at least outpace a husband wife combo doing it dockside.

So what do I do, are these things normally up for negotiation? or how do you normally handle these disputes? I don't want to be a dick but I feel like I should pay such a high price for them taking their sweet time to do a very simple job.[/QUOTE]