Induction Cooking and AC on DC

[kmacdonald]

I may have to rethink induction cooking. What about an oven? Toaster oven?

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

I may have to rethink induction cooking. What about an oven? Toaster oven?

Same concept applies. How practical it is to power depends on your usage and your electrical architecture.

In our case, we run stuff like the toaster and coffee maker from the inverter. We don't have an oven, although I'll replace the microwave with a convection oven combo at some point. That, like the stove is generator or shore power only for us.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Is going all electric supposed to prove something? Isn't it like trying to force a square block in a round hole?

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

I may have to rethink induction cooking. What about an oven? Toaster oven?

I'm assuming your original question is about galleys, not propulsion...

As with many things, there are pros and cons to an all-electric galley. We like ours; it's just easier. We don't have an induction cooktop (yet?) so can't use our cooktop on the inverter...

But otherwise the toaster, short bursts of microwave, coffee maker, etc. all work well enough without starting the generator.

Until it's time to recharge batteries anyway, and that's when we do use the cooktop, heat water, etc. at the same time.

We do occasionally use a small propane grill outdoors; the little canisters are easy enough to manage, at least in our system.

-Chris

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

As with many things, there are pros and cons to an all-electric galley. We like ours; it's just easier. We don't have an induction cooktop (yet?) so can't use our cooktop on the inverter...

If you've currently got a resistive electric stove, there's no reason you can't run it from the inverter. Only reason I don't with mine is due to not having a big enough inverter to use multiple burners and not enough battery for it to be practical.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by seandepagnier

Did your calculation for butane involve the energy to extract, refine, transport, compress the fuel? I don't see how 50% is possible. The real figure is well below 5%. Your comparison of efficiency is a good example of apples to oranges and the numbers listed are meaningless to anyone regardless of their beliefs or opinions and have no practical value.


I have a solar oven which is a lot more efficient and I use it in january with below freezing air temperature.

I was not pursing end to end efficiency. Even if I were to try I could not accurately assess that. While I agree that there is a moral argument there that supports conversion to EG, most people are more interested in the practical benefits for themselves, and if there is a moral benefit that’s just icing on the cake.

I was able to very accurately measure the efficiency of converting on-board storage to hot food. This allowed me to create a way to estimate how much electrical capacity would be needed to cook meals in the manner the people are already accustomed to. And I was able to do this without knowing what they cook nor how much cooking they normally do.

You want people to change, show them the short and medium term practical and monetary benefits.

[Dockhead]

Oven is a problem in an electric galley.


Induction cooktop is fairly easy as not that much power is required.


Paradoxically, electric ovens are far better than gas ones, especially convection ovens, but they take a lot of power, so I think not really practical without a generator.


For a lot of cruisers I think the best solution is a flexible one -- keep the gas stove and oven, but add a portable induction cooktop. Unfortunately, this doesn't bring the safety advantages of getting rid of the gas.


One solution for the oven is a combination microwave convection oven. My boat was built with a built-in microwave/grill. I've been looking (so far without success) for a micro/convection oven which could drop into the space for that. These are maby a little too small for roasting some things. I don't use the oven much so am not the person to comment on this.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

I may have to rethink induction cooking. What about an oven? Toaster oven?

The most efficient ovens are convection ovens. I have not yet tested the efficiency of those vs propane though I have plans to do so.

There are 2 possible roads to follow with convection ovens
A straight convection/toast oven
A microwave/convection oven.

America’s Test Kitchen did extensive test on convection/toaster ovens and Breville was by far the best at a modest cost premium. It was big enough to cook a chicken and small pizza. YT video by ATK on their testing.

I found no comparison testing of Microwave/convection ovens and have no opinion regarding any make or model.

The advantage I can see for microwaves is heating or reheating small portions without creating a need to wash pots or pans which would be an demand for electricity and water.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Adelie

The advantage I can see for microwaves is heating or reheating small portions without creating a need to wash pots or pans which would be an demand for electricity and water.

That's exactly it. The primary job of a microwave is to re-heat leftovers.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

That's exactly it. The primary job of a microwave is to re-heat leftovers.

Microwaves have a lot of uses. Mine gets more use even than the stove. One of the best things on board.


Adelie is right that a big advantage of microwave on a boat is that you can heat or cook the food in the same dish you serve it in, saving washing pots. That is a really big advantage, on top of all the others.

[Adelie]

Using US countertop appliances you could build a system that draws 3600W maximum, 1800W for a 2 burner hob and 1800W for the convection oven.

To power them both at full power you would want a 4,500-,5000W pure sine wave inverter, induction really doesn’t like modified sine.

At full power the inverter would be drawing 4,000W assuming 90% efficiency, that’s 333amps. Keep in mind that once pans are preheated energy demand will throttle. The only demand that won’t throttle is boiling water for pasta, potato’s, or whatever. If you star Lt everything at the same time then in about 7-12min I would expect instantaneous demand to decrease.

[ShinyHappy]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Is going all electric supposed to prove something? Isn't it like trying to force a square block in a round hole?

I see it as a goal.

I'm not yet a cruiser, but when I am I hope to be able to generate and store all of the energy I need on my boat without ever needing to "fill up" anything on land.

The tech isn't there yet without making sacrifices that won't appeal to my wife. But in making incremental improvements it will get there.

I expect this is true for others and they are trying to get there. Those are the trailblazers that will make it possible for me so I'm happy to see them push on.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

If you've currently got a resistive electric stove, there's no reason you can't run it from the inverter. Only reason I don't with mine is due to not having a big enough inverter to use multiple burners and not enough battery for it to be practical.

Yep, same here. And there's no pressing need for us to do that anyway, given periodic recharging requirements and easy mate-up with dinner times.

-Chris

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

One solution for the oven is a combination microwave convection oven. My boat was built with a built-in microwave/grill. I've been looking (so far without success) for a micro/convection oven which could drop into the space for that. These are maby a little too small for roasting some things. I don't use the oven much so am not the person to comment on this.

Beginning to see combo units adding "air fryer" to the mix, too.

I replaced our original, failed, Panasonic combo late last year with a newer Panasonic combo version that also incudes the "air fryer" thing. Partly because that was the best unit to fit the allotted space, even if it did require some slight cabinetry surgery.

I dunno what "air frying" is yet, though, and haven't used the unit anyway -- since that was just at end of season for us this time.

-Chris

[more]

[QUOTE=Dockhead;3572891
My boat was built with a built-in microwave/grill. I've been looking (so far without success) for a micro/convection oven which could drop into the space for that. These are maby a little too small for roasting some things. I don't use the oven much so am not the person to comment on this.[/QUOTE]
like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWWvaAdDE2Q

[Pete7]

Twice in the past 4 years we have fallen foul of suppliers being unable to provide gas cylinders in the UK, (cylinders are exchanged rather than filled). There is still a huge shortage in the UK. A slow cooker running on an inverter uses 110w which was part of the solution, but until May 21, we couldn't run a kettle or toaster etc on a small yacht. Installing a drop in lithium battery and a bigger 300w solar panel changed all that. We bought kettle plus induction hob and during a 3 week trip away in Aug 21 only needed to run the engine twice during inclement weather to top the batteries up. Cooking is now a mix of gas and electric, but we always use the electric kettle and being English we drink a lot of tea.

Last Oct I finally decided to get rid of the original 34 year old gas cooker as it was getting on a bit (rusty) and doesn't have flame failure devices fitted to the burners. We ordered a cooker without the grill. At the beginning of February the chandler still hadn't heard anything about the order, despite them being made in the UK 200 miles away. Enough was enough and we did a deal with the chandler for just a gas hob and grill which he had in stock.

The hob/grill has to be mounted slightly lower to account for the taller gimbals, otherwise without the weight of the oven part it risks tipping with a heavy pan. Just waiting for a gas inspection / pressure test and away we go.

WE have an Ninja air fryer at home and are thinking of having a second one on the yacht. The alternative is an air fryer oven which Ninja also make, the slim looks ideal.

https://ninjakitchen.co.uk/product/n...1uk-zidSP101UK

The other interesting option is a Remoska which at 400w doesn't even need lithium, a decent pair of lead-acid could power this on a small yacht.

https://www.lakeland.co.uk/31945/Sta...ails-accordion

Is it worth doing? We think so. We avoid expensive marinas preferring the more traditional little fishing harbours or estuaries so no shore power. Having a mix of gas and electric cooking gives us freedom and removes the problem of gas shortages and any existing gas we have lasts much longer.

Pete