Inboard engines and a changing world

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Cheyne

I just repowered my Cat with two 3JH40's and SD60 sail drives. The cost was $43k for the pair of engines and sail drives from Mack Boring.

Ok pro install?
Found the saildrives in Florida for just under 6k each
So 12k for 2 plus the 14k for the for each motor
And the 5k each for batteries

12k saildrives
28k motors
10k batteries
1k charger
500 upgrade electric to support charger.
51,500. For electric plus install.
Not bad difference if both are plus labor ( that's the expensive part.)
But 9k is a lot of diesel and maintenance parts.

[Cheyne]

Our Yanmar dealer did the installation for us. We spend another $25k on labor, misc parts, etc. We had a quote from OceanVolt that was about $90k to convert the boat to electric.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Cheyne

Our Yanmar dealer did the installation for us. We spend another $25k on labor, misc parts, etc. We had a quote from OceanVolt that was about $90k to convert the boat to electric.

Ok so a 20k difference that's a lot of fuel but at the same time approx 70k to 90k isn't that big of a difference . Question is after the upgrades for the electric charging in solar and or wind as well as the regen . How many years of fuel savings to break even ?

[Cheyne]

Our biggest hold up was time. OceanVolt need 7 to 9 months to get everything to us and Yanmar had engines sitting in the warehouse in New Jersey.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Cheyne

Our biggest hold up was time. OceanVolt need 7 to 9 months to get everything to us and Yanmar had engines sitting in the warehouse in New Jersey.

Lead time is always a factor in the decision process isn't it .

[Cheyne]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Lead time is always a factor in the decision process isn't it .

Yep, we lost an engine in October on the way to the Annapolis boat show. Both Volvo's were well over 8000 hours and had some questionable work done to them in Central America when it was with the previous owner. We also didn't want to give up our cruising season and as this is our only home we didn't want to spend the season in Virginia. If OceanVolt had everything ready we most likely would have converted. We already have 2600w of solar and a house bank that is 1620 amp/hour.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

There remains a misconception for most people that electricity comes out of a plug on the wall.

People forget that it requires enormous electrical power stations to provide this magic juice. More EV's means bigger and larger power stations, which will require bigger and more juice to run them, be it gas, coal, nuclear...etc....

The conflict in Ukraine show just how tenuous keeping an electrical power grid in operation can be. Fuel tankers, land and sea, are at least mobile.

Furthermore, the giant ships that ply our oceans, require enormous diesel power and enormous fuel capacity to run them. Same can be said for aircraft jet engines. Not to mention the gazillion outboard motors out there, all well known fuel guzzlers

Like it or not, diesel and gas will remain in our future for a long time yet.

Nice to see strides being made in the auto EV world, but at this point in time, a mere blip on the horizon.

Enormous electrical stations provide a giant efficiency advantage over burning fossil fuels locally.

More EVs also mean a greater percentage of renewables is used rather than wasted.

The giant ships are in the process of converting to alternative fuels and sail is making a comeback.

Gas/petrol & diesel will remain in our future for a significant period but it will be a dwindling presence, not a steady one.

Social unrest and war does highlight the vulnerabilities of electrical grids. But do you really expect hose things in Western Europe, USA, Australia or NewZealand where most of CF’s membership is?

All of this is tangential to the question of electrical propulsion (EP) for cruisers.

If you have a power vessel EP will tie you to marinas and only allow you to make short runs. Same if you have a heavy sailboat that you daysail or overnight in areas with mediocre winds.

If you have a schedule or feel you have to maintain a schedule over significant distances then EP won’t work for you.

For folks that are coastal or offshore sailing that are willing accept waiting for the wind and have significant solar, EP will work fine.

[MicHughV]

For what it is worth.

Since Tesla cars first came out, their showroom was regulated to an area mall. And it was only the one showroom, not very big one at that. There was some political/car dealership politics behind this, but I could not tell you why.

Nonetheless, I see Tesla is now building a new car dealership lot, smack dab in the middle of other car dealerships, not sure how they pulled that off, but they are there.

Opinions may differ on this, but gas and diesel powered vehicles, aircraft, ships, etc, will be around for a long time.

I do see some area marina's now with a power supply for EV's, usually two spaces. See some of these at area malls too.

[Chotu]

here’s a complete list of the states that are banning the sale of internal combustion engine cars.

there is no question that this will affect us. I don’t know how to predict exactly what will happen because I don’t understand these markets well enough. But changes this huge will affect us.

We are only a small blip along for the ride. Where the auto industry goes we have to follow.


https://www.cnet.com/google-amp/news...-powered-cars/

[MicHughV]

oh dear.....what's bubba gonna do widdout his V8 truck...

[Chotu]

Bubba's gonna have to get used to these! Ha ha ha

might need a sawed off rifle to fit on the rear window rack

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=irpe3biuBIU

[MicHughV]

If I had to guess....I'd say that 90% of the men in my neck of the woods likely own and drive a truck, typically a V8. All makes and models. I myself drive a truck.
I just don't see a move happening to an electrical truck, unless they can pipe an exhaust note into the truck interior.
The other 10% wished they drove a truck.

True, fuel consumption of these beasts is not pretty, neither is the current gas price, but so far it has not been a deterrent to stand between man and his truck.

I do however see, a trend with truck manufacturers going to a smaller 6 cylinder engine which is turbo-charged, making more horsepower and torque. The V8 is likely on it's last legs or better said on it's last decade.

I do see some of the newer cruise ships going to electric propulsion, but those electric motors are run by a diesel generator. Cannot speak to the economy of doing this, but I suspect that there is likely sound engineering behind this move, prompted no doubt by the bean counters back home.

Ah well, I'll keep my two stroke Yamaha for a while yet....

[Statistical]

Originally Posted by pcmm

I've never seen a 40hp NEW yanmar from a reputable dealer for that cheap, you can barely get a rebuilt one for that price. you're link is to some Indonesian company...

Yeah I browsed through their beta prices and they are laughably dubious. Like 1/3rd the real pice. Seems like a scam to steal your money and send you a rock in a crate which will arrive in 90 days.

Hell you can't get some of those engines at those prices if they are used and five years old.

[Statistical]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

Opinions may differ on this, but gas and diesel powered vehicles, aircraft, ships, etc, will be around for a long time.

Ships and aircraft are tough. Passenger ground vehicles are downright trivial though. Most of the auto OEMs see the writing on the wall. New sales of internal combustion ground vehicles are likely coming to a close within 20 years.

Of course it is 100x easier to make an electric car than an electric boat. I could see internal combustion outboards going away eventually though. There are phaseouts in CA of small engines (lawn mowers, trimmers, etc).

Gas turbines running on LNG may be an lower emission although not zero emission alternative to diesel for large ships.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

Since Tesla cars first came out, their showroom was [relegated] to an area mall. And it was only the one showroom, not very big one at that. There was some political/car dealership politics behind this, but I could not tell you why.

No politics. Tesla started slow, the initial volume of vehicles available was modest, so setting up big dealerships right off made no sense. Whereas - put one or two shiny Teslas in a nice setting in a high-traffic upscale mall. Make appointments for a test drive. Take the orders, and deliver the car to the customer's doorstep. Ditto for service. It was a brilliant strategy for a car startup.

Nonetheless, I see Tesla is now building a new car dealership lot, smack dab in the middle of other car dealerships, not sure how they pulled that off, but they are there.

They now produce in volume, and there's now a used Tesla market as well.

More on topic - I would consider that small diesels on long-distance cruising sailboats is a GOOD use of internal combustion engines, because that's where the energy density of diesel fuel is not yet matched by batteries or other alternatives.

For the personal vehicle, 95% of which are home at night, and mainly do short trips, the ICE engine is wasteful compared to current EVs. So that's becoming a bad use.