ICW "Pirates". Have you Seen?

[frank_f]

Originally Posted by Irish rambler

Hello guys, reference the French couple. Forget the politically correct bs, frankly I don't really give a flying f... who gets their knickers in a twist. Some of us have long memories and you only have to look at the shenanigans of their President to get the idea. I spend a good bit of time in France and married a French girl. The beaurocracy is a socialist nightmare and many will smile sweetly as they slide the knife in. There you go I've probably started World War 3.
Attached are some photo's of the boat Pascal and Monique abandoned in VIAS, France before they headed your way. Maybe, just maybe, the boat is registered in Sete,France which will give a bit of info to track them down and get some money returned to Pat, the victim of these parasites.

Your photos are very recent. Is someone still living on that?

[Jimmy Jazz]

those pictures have todays date on them and I would think if that boat had been abandoned for over a year someone would have scooped the outboard and solar panel.

[Irish rambler]

Once I saw the post and the picture of the couple and identifying them on Cruisers Forum I drove to their old boat this morning to take the pictures(I'm on winter moorings 70kms away) in the hope that it will give a clue to someone in the hope that Pat (the victim) may be reimbursed.
The solar panel is wrecked on the underneath, I'm surprised myself the engine has not disappeared. The notice affixed to the cabin roof is from the Waterway authority declaring their intention to remove the boat as it's been there ever since they left 3 years ago to go to Martinique. As I said earlier France is a beauracratic paper nightmare and everyone wants a receipt to prove ownership and taxes are paid as they're sometimes stopped by the Gendarmes or Douane(customs).
They were as I said, viewed with distaste as marine 'clochards' Vias is a holiday resort(it's the closest the Canal du Midi gets to the sea,1 km) and they were most unwelcome.
Pascal left first, Monique stayed around 3 months longer with various 'boyfriends' on the boat and then she simply locked the cabin and left it as you see it in the photo's. There's no one been on board since and it is classed as abandoned and it will be taken to the local waterways depot for the chainsaw treatment..

[lancelot9898]

I wonder how they acquired another boat to sail across the pond? That boat in Oriental did not look capable. but I'm sure the boat was more capable than that crew.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by Irish rambler

Once I saw the post and the picture of the couple and identifying them on Cruisers Forum I drove to their old boat this morning to take the pictures(I'm on winter moorings 70kms away) in the hope that it will give a clue to someone in the hope that Pat (the victim) may be reimbursed.
..

Pat will not be reimbursed. That's an absolute. They are outside the jurisdiction of the local courts in North Carolina. Even if Pat got a judgment against them (a waste of money to pursue) he would have no means of collecting it. If they're still currently in the Bahamas he'd have to come sue them there and hope to get a judgment before they left. Even then there is nothing to collect from. This is a relatively, although not to Pat, small civil debt and is basically noncollectable. I'm really confused as to how anyone thinks any of this will somehow help Pat collect. 0% possibility.

[redsky49]

Originally Posted by Irish rambler

Hello guys, reference the French couple. Forget the politically correct bs, frankly I don't really give a flying f... who gets their knickers in a twist. Some of us have long memories and you only have to look at the shenanigans of their President to get the idea. I spend a good bit of time in France and married a French girl. The beaurocracy is a socialist nightmare and many will smile sweetly as they slide the knife in. There you go I've probably started World War 3.
Attached are some photo's of the boat Pascal and Monique abandoned in VIAS, France before they headed your way. Maybe, just maybe, the boat is registered in Sete,France which will give a bit of info to track them down and get some money returned to Pat, the victim of these parasites.

Doesn't look like either of the two were interested in upkeep of their boat. The one in Oriental looked similar.
They not only took advantage of Pat, but also many other members of the Oriental community. I have zero sympathy for them.
As to the need/purpose of this thread, hopefully it may forewarn other communities. These two appear to be serial con artists/scammers.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by redsky49

Doesn't look like either of the two were interested in upkeep of their boat. The one in Oriental looked similar.
They not only took advantage of Pat, but also many other members of the Oriental community. I have zero sympathy for them.
As to the need/purpose of this thread, hopefully it may forewarn other communities. These two appear to be serial con artists/scammers.

Yes, that is their occupation: Con and Scam Artists.

But perhaps add thieves to that as well. They did have one arrest for shoplifting in Oriental but generally are suspected of much more.

All the talk of cruising on $500 - $5000, they have perfected a way to do it on less. Use other's money and gifts. Then maybe you can reach $0 cost.

[HappyMdRSailor]

Originally Posted by BandB

Yes, that is their occupation: Con and Scam Artists.

But perhaps add thieves to that as well. They did have one arrest for shoplifting in Oriental but generally are suspected of much more.

All the talk of cruising on $500 - $5000, they have perfected a way to do it on less. Use other's money and gifts. Then maybe you can reach $0 cost.

There ya go.... I don't think the "$0" dollar method has been broached there yet....

edit- Wait... or does it go in the "make money while cruising" thread???

[hellosailor]

There are some games judges can play. Perhaps unfortunately, in the US anyone can be elected or appointed as a judge with no knowledge of the law and no qualifications beyond popularity.

The Beaufort local postings indicated that a summons/warrant was issued for Pascal's appearance before the court. Failing to appear before a court can result in a bench warrant being issued for arrest, or a warrant issued for contempt of court, which in turn also means an arrest. These become separate criminal matters even in the original case was civil or administrative, as I understand it. (And no doubt even with uniform codes, these matters vary in each of our States.)

So I suspect that if the original "judge" had any interest in the matter, there could be arrest warrants issued and if nothing else, they would guarantee that Pascal would be arrested on any future attempt to enter the US. Whether those warrants would hold any ground in the Bahamas or France...beyond me. But the odds are the judge isn't interested in wasting his time over a "small" matter with little chance of payback. Unless, of course, Pat voted for him and might run against him next time around.

[Sand crab]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

The Beaufort local postings indicated that a summons/warrant was issued for Pascal's appearance before the court. Failing to appear before a court can result in a bench warrant being issued for arrest, or a warrant issued for contempt of court, which in turn also means an arrest. These become separate criminal matters even in the original case was civil or administrative, as I understand it. (And no doubt even with uniform codes, these matters vary in each of our States.)

So I suspect that if the original "judge" had any interest in the matter, there could be arrest warrants issued and if nothing else, they would guarantee that Pascal would be arrested on any future attempt to enter the US. Whether those warrants would hold any ground in the Bahamas or France...beyond me. But the odds are the judge isn't interested in wasting his time over a "small" matter with little chance of payback. Unless, of course, Pat voted for him and might run against him next time around.

There are "actionable" warrants and non actionable. A miscreant has to be on the lam for a serious crime to be arrested in another state. Failure to appear on a civil matter ain't one. If there is a bench warrant for this the only way he could be arrested is if he actually goes to No. Carolina.

[jtsailjt]

It seems a shame that it's unlikely Pat will get any of his money back. By the looks of the 2 boats, probably the only thing worth $2500 on either one would be the lead in the keels and that's not easily transportable. But if I were him, even if I never recovered a dime, I know I'd take some satisfaction in knowing that those two weren't enjoying my money on their boat in some beautiful Caribbean anchorage.

[Jimmy Jazz]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

There are some games judges can play. Perhaps unfortunately, in the US anyone can be elected or appointed as a judge with no knowledge of the law and no qualifications beyond popularity.

The Beaufort local postings indicated that a summons/warrant was issued for Pascal's appearance before the court. Failing to appear before a court can result in a bench warrant being issued for arrest, or a warrant issued for contempt of court, which in turn also means an arrest. These become separate criminal matters even in the original case was civil or administrative, as I understand it. (And no doubt even with uniform codes, these matters vary in each of our States.)

So I suspect that if the original "judge" had any interest in the matter, there could be arrest warrants issued and if nothing else, they would guarantee that Pascal would be arrested on any future attempt to enter the US. Whether those warrants would hold any ground in the Bahamas or France...beyond me. But the odds are the judge isn't interested in wasting his time over a "small" matter with little chance of payback. Unless, of course, Pat voted for him and might run against him next time around.

First its up to the plaintiff to personally give the couple a summons to small claims court. Once the couple have been served and dont show up for their court date, then the judge can issue a warrant for their appearance. Let it go, there isnt a bloody thing anybody can do !

[Irish rambler]

One things for sure guys, even if you had all the warrants in creation if they get themselves into French jurisdiction the French legal system has procrastination down to a fine art and the Gendarme couldn't care less. So don't hold your hand over your ass waiting.
The reason I posted the photo's was that if they were repatriated they would probably return to the boat on the Canal du Midi if it's not been removed and chain sawed, and maybe some hotshot lawyer could get it sequestered.
Sheesh but these people give us live aboards a bad name.

[BandB]

First, failure to appear in small claims court doesn't get you served and arrested. Once you've had the papers delivered to you and been "served notice" you can simply not appear and lose by default. What didn't occur in this case was the case wasn't filed in time for them to be served.

However, even if served and failing to appear and losing the case, the result is simply a judgment can go against you. Judgments then have to be perfected. Well, even if it was they have nothing but the boat and if they claimed it was their home it gets more complicated. But again none of that matters because they left before any of that happens.

There is no way to force someone to return to a state for a case like this. And certainly not from another country. No way to perfect a judgment. They are judgment proof.

Don't think for a moment they didn't know and plan. They knew they could pull the scam and there really was no recourse. Then they would leave. Next place, next scam. How many people do you think they've scammed who were too embarrassed to go public with it? Didn't want people thinking they were dumb?

The only arrest they actually got was she got one for shoplifting. Slap of wrist and go on.

And the mention of misdemeanor, even if there was one which there isn't in this case, states don't extradite for them and countries sure don't.

They got away with it. Not their first time and won't be their last. It's sad, because they steal not just the money but some of the innocence from good caring people.

The last post mentioned giving liveaboards a bad name. Absolutely. And that's wrong. But that is also why it's in the best interest of liveaboards to help find solutions to help communities deal with boats like Primadonna. If not then the risk is that the entire group might suffer because of the actions of a few.

[Jimmy Jazz]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Jazz

First its up to the plaintiff to personally give the couple a summons to small claims court. Once the couple have been served and dont show up for their court date, then the judge can issue a warrant for their appearance. Let it go, there isnt a bloody thing anybody can do !

sorry, correction. after judgment and found guilty then a warrant can then be issued.