How much is enough? Good size for a voyage boat

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by pcav

Hi all,
I know it's a never ending question, but I'm in the process of choosing my boat for leaving for an open ended trip, and my main concern is about size. I'm pretty minimalist as an attitude, and I have sailed on anything from a Vaurien to a 50 ft. I'm unsure a 36 ft (I'm thinking to Sun Odyssey 36i or similar) could be enough for a 2 people crew, both as seaworthiness and as space inside, for an extended (years) trip anywhere. Most of people and books recommend a 40-45 ft. Anyone has experience to share?
Thanking a lot in advance.

hmmmm . . . .

#1 24' has proven to be enough for many couples who have sailed round the world. (we even know one 24'er that did it as a couple with 2 kids). That will just depend on how 'minimalist' you are.

#2 When we started world cruising 36' was considered the perfect size for a couple round the world. We did our first RTW in a small 37'er. It was fine.

#3 The average fleet size has crept up over the years. It is now probably in the 47'-52' range. This is not a function of 'need', but more a matter of people have retired with more money (it used to be more younger people with relatively little money). These bigger boats of pros and cons, and is pretty much an individual decision/trade-offs.

#4 I typically encourage people asking this sort of question to error on the smaller size. You typically can not make an informed decision because you just dont have enough experience to know what sort of cruiser you are. Leaning smaller, the financial burden is less, the sailing loads are less, and you can learn what sort of cruiser you are - and a mid-30's boat is well big enough to be seaworthy and to carry everything you need.

[jwing]

Regarding boat size:

My #1a priority in a cruising boat is a berth big enough for me and my gal to have lots of fun. I'm not talking about creative ways to use a cramped v-berth on weekends. Priority #1b is a cockpit big enough for me and my gal to have lots of fun.

Priority #2: See hellosailor's post #10.

Priority #3: The smallest boat that will satisfy Priorities #1 and #2.

[Cheechako]

I think the main concern is Speed and sailhandling.
-As a couple of small stature, there were times in strong winds we simply could not budge the winch, using a two hand handle. Our genoa was something like only 115%. This was a 47 foot boat, the winches were not small. These were not storm winds either. (I'm 5-8 and 165 lb.)
-The bigger boat does give you more speed to your destination, I had trouble going significantly smaller after the 47.
-A 36-38 ft boat should give you plenty of room for a couple. There seems to be a bit less inventory in that size than 40-45 though.
-What do you gain going from 38 to 45? Basically an additional head and more beam/floorspace to be sliding across in rough weather.

[Terry107]

Originally Posted by pcav

Thanks guys! I'd love to read even more experiences. More specifically, for those who did travel extensively:
* what is the size of your boat?
* what do you miss most/why whould you coose a larger one?
* would you like to have a smaller one instead, and why?
I hpe this will be of interest for others.

I had a Phillipa 27. It did not have a fridge ,watermaker,generator.It had one head,no shower(bucket of water). I sailed many thousands of miles in that boat and enjoyed every one of them.I now have a Rival 34 which is as big as I need and can still manage sailing single handed aged 70. I now have a fridge!! One head no shower no generator but hey I still sail which is the main point.Do not break the bank just get a well found boat that you can manage and get out on the water.Life is short make the most of it.

[hamburking]

I had a 1994 Hunter Legend 35.5. It was more than enough boat for 2 people to live on, with plenty of space for tons of supplies, spares, etc. with lots of luxury...stand up shower, A/C, big comfy bed, etc.

I sailed alone on an old Pearson 30. It seemed way too big for just one person. Even with all my gear, dinghy, spares, tools, and everything, the boat was mostly empty.

[jhoran]

For me I have a 38' boat that was to be my perfect cruising boat ( 2 year trip), however, for my wife it was not.
The boat just did not provide enough (easy) storage (clothes, food, etc.). The fear I had was that moving up a size to accommodate her needs would take away drastically from the cruising kitty. Fortunately we were able to find a boat that could be quickly paid off. We now have a 42' with a center cockpit and an aft stateroom. I am happy that she is now happy!
Bottom line, you need what you need.

[01kiwijohn]

We use a 36 footer, it's older (40 years) and smaller (10' beam) than most. We are both smaller (5'3" & 5'7") but the most important criteria for us were 1) Can I really sail it single handedly? and 2) we don't want any gear aboard that we cannot repair ourselves. (Single spreader rig, manual windlass, wind vane steering, openCPN navigation....you get the picture)
We've sailed it on coastal cruises, and across the Pacific and back, for months at a time each year for the past 10 years. Oh, yes, I'll be 70 this year. So, it works for us, despite the "Bar-stool Admirals" opinions. Just plan your trips carefully, and do not be impatient.

[Oronsay]

I sailed to Fiji and back from Dana Point, CA in a 31' fiberglass ketch (Grampian). My thoughts on return were that a 37' Grampian would be perfect. This was way back in 1977... I now have a Pacific Seacraft 37, which I think is perfect size, me thinks. Bigger boats cost more to maintain, smaller boats hull speed lower (passage time longer). So in my mind it's a tradeoff between money and time at sea, which correlates loosely to risk, IMO

[Mike OReilly]

As almost everyone has said, there is no one right answer. It depends on you and your needs. I’m with estarzinger’s four points. To his I would add that a focus on the smallest boat you can live with will lead to better results than simply considering the most comfortable one that you can afford.

A 45’+ boat is not needed for a cruising couple. But neither is a 37-footer (). You have to figure out what you and your crew actually needs (vs. what you may want), and the best way to do that is get out there are start cruising. I suggest getting into a 28’ to 32’ older inexpensive boat that is reasonably well equipped, and has all the systems you’d find on most cruising boats (sloop/cutter/ketch rigging, anchor system, galley/head plumbing, inboard engine, electrical system, etc…). Get out there are spend as much as you can. Live with this boat. Learn to maintain and sail this boat. This will teach you what you (and your crew) really needs and wants.

Then, sell this boat and buy what you now know you need. It may be a 45-footer, or it may be a bathtub with a sail. There’s no right answer for everyone. Just the right one for you.

Personally, I’ve found our 37-footer to suit our needs (me and my spouse). It is a boat designed for long distance and long term cruising, with large tanks and large storage. It is a good sailing platform which is easy to work on in bump seas. But it also comes with serious limitations — all boats are a compromise. You have to figure out what’s important, and what you can compromise on.

[Pizzazz]

An important question to answer for yourself is if you are really committed to long-term voyaging. If so, there is no doubt that a larger boat is more comfortable, faster, gives you more options. Think about a 44-45 footer or larger, also look at catamarans as they seem to be the future. If undecided, then a smaller, starter boat makes more sense because smaller boats are less expensive to acquire and maintain and easier to get rid of if you decide you have had enough.

Many people in your situation go for a large boat that costs $200-300K to acquire and 10-15% of that to maintain per year. A couple of years later they have either not left or get tired of the cruising lifestyle. Large, cruising equipped boats are difficult to sell (either it takes a long time or you sell at a steep discount), so you must be prepared to take (let's say) a $100K hit. It is a personal decision.

The flipside of the above argument is that if you start smaller and then move to a real boat, most of the upgrades and maintenance on the smaller boat will be wasted money. Think of it as an option to confirm your commitment.

In terms of specific details that depend on boat size, I think most important are standing room that comes at 30-35 feet, second private cabin that comes at 35-40 feet and then a third private cabin (45-50 feet) if you will have frequent guests. Very similar to buying a house. Some cruisers put a premium on tankage and load carrying ability but I think it is less important these days. Fuel is easy to get anywhere and water is easy to make with a watermaker.

Next think about the type of voyaging you want to do. If you want to spend extended times away from civilization at anchor, then you need to carry a lot of stuff. If you are making shorter trips with occasional ocean crossings then it probably makes more sense to allocate a bigger portion of the budget to marina fees, hotels, restaurants, sightseeing. It is a lifestyle choice.

[alaskaflyfish]

When I tackled the question of larger vs. smaller, the one question that stayed in the back of my mind was "what are you going to do with the boat when the cruise is over?". Is it going to sit in a marina or a boatyard sucking up monthly fees? If you decide to live on it full time for several years a larger boat may be worth it. However, after a year cruise and you need to get back to land the boat just becomes a white elephant eating you out of house and home. It becomes just another liability that you have to manage. This is why I purchased a 27ft Albin Vega with a trailer and a hinged mast. My marina fees are $1200 annually and I will never be held captive to lousy boat yard. Small boats are NOT luxurious and offer little in regards to comforts. But, if you consider it as a vehicle to take you places then it starts to make more sense. Example, many people traveled here to Alaska in both VW buses and Mega motor homes. Both are walking the streets and having the same experiences and creating the same memories. One is just more comfortable at the moment. Whats that worth to you long term?

[MarkJ]

I have been cruising for 9 years on a 39 foot Beneteau.

I would love a 50 footer.

People say such bulltwadxle but i can tell you a fact: in a 30 foot sea every foot counts. Looking at them waves in a 30 footer is much, much more character building than a 50 footer.

And my character dont need no building!

Mark

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

I have been cruising for 9 years on a 39 foot Beneteau.

I would love a 50 footer.

Peoe say such bulltwadxle but i can tell you a fact: in a 30 foot sea every foot counts. Looking at them waves in a 30 footer is much, much more character building than a 50 footer.

Sure, in 30 foot seas a 50-footer is better than a 39-footer, but a 60-footer is better than a 50-footer, and I’d really love a 100-footer if I could. Of course, next to a 25’ dock, a 39-footer is better than a 50-footer, and a lot better than my dream 100-footer. When it comes to replacing sails I’d rather have the 39-footer, but when it comes to making long passages, I want the 50-footer.

This is an infinite regression argument. More (or less) can always be “better” depending on the circumstances. If resources are unlimited you can have have it all. But few of us are so blessed. If resources are finite all you can do is make the best choice given the constraints.

The question is, not what is the best possible boat. The real question, as stated, is what is enough. And that will depend on each individual. The only way to really know what is enough is to find out what’s important to the crew, and then find the best match given the available resources (money, time, skills, etc.).

[TheThunderbird]

How much punishment and deprivation can you accept?

Ask boat owners around if they'd like their boat 3' longer/shorter :-)

That said,any vessel goes anywhere, ask Captain Bligh for details

PS

F6-7 is a nightmare on a 34', a challenge on a 41' and a breeze on a 54' (please no comments, this is out the real world!)

[Cotemar]

The longer your on a boat the smaller they get.

The reason why most circumnavigaters choose a 45 footer, is because they want to cross oceans with speed and comfort.

People have circumnavigated in smaller boats, but the SUCK factor goes EXPONENTIAL.

Smaller boats give you that loose cork in a bottle feel, that just SUCK on a long voyage.
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