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Old 23-06-2017, 00:21   #1
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Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Aspen USA
Boat: 10' surfboard
Posts: 148
Come ugly weather, is more underbody a liability?

Lets examine briefly the underbody of an Archer/Atkin style boat. Long keel, low freeboard. Some folks look to the Redningskoite double ender heavy displacement Archer as the example for serious ocean passages involving exposure to real and significant wave size and weather. What really gets me interested in this is the question of large underbody actually transmitting ocean energy to the vessel and occupants.

Does that long keel, heavy displacement, and generally below waterline focus actually present a larger surface for the angry ocean to act upon? Do large swells begin to push this style of design around and off course due to more area to act upon?

When it gets truly hairy on passage and you are tired, do these designs lie ahull or accept a basic hove to setting with minimal sail, or are we fantasizing here?

Can you really depend on heavy long keel designs to just take over and handle the ocean for you when it gets ugly out there? or does that deep long keel just expose you to more angry ocean random energy attacks?

I see that Macharj (who I respect) seems to look to these older longer heavier types in rough weather, but I wonder if an expansive underbody exposes the sailor to wave energy?

Does a submarine heavy keeler simply expose you to all that water movement? does it present a large surface for the angry ocean to act upon and affect? or does it maintain a smooth direct course and dissipate excessive wave energy in a linear, gentle progressive fashion that mellows all of the ocean water assaults?

I ask these questions out of ignorance, and appeal to those who have experienced both and know what really works offshore.
It would seem modern designs work much better than traditional long heavy keels IF the boat is actively driven. Lets say I just want to drop sail, and go hide below. can this even be done on a modern design with a deep keel, and high aspect rudder? can you even lie ahull in these awesome wide stern figero or class 40 style boats? do they work even better sitting mid ocean laying ahull?

If I go with the more modern underbody, am I compelled to put on the foulies, and drive that puppy through the whole nasty spell, or can I just make a drink and watch a movie with sails struck and rudder lashed?
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Old 23-06-2017, 07:10   #2
cat herder, extreme blacksheep

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 18,967
Images: 56
Re: Come ugly weather, is more underbody a liability?

having been thru heavy weather in both a shallow draft lighter alleged performance cruiser and in a heavy long keeled ketch, i can tell ye first hand side by side testing showed the more comfortable option is the heavy full keeled cruiser. first off, the full keeled cruiser will be no slower in heavy weather than the performance cruiser. bashing is bashing. i also enjoy the fact i go out when the lighter boats are running into marinas for their lives .
my formosa is only just starting to stretch her legs in 20 kts, and loves more wind.
as for heaving to, i sail thru storms. i donot go out when a cyclonic event is predicted, yes i guess that makes me a woossy girl. big deal i am not stoopit. it is easier to heave to a full keeled ketch than a fin / spade sloop. funny how that works.
as for underwater movement, i donot feel that in my formosa. we were tossed around mightily in gom in that lighter sloop than i ever have been in my heavy ketch.
ps i can cook in my ketch while under way, i could not cook in the performance cruiser while we were underway. a lot to be said for the heaviness and comfort they provide.
someone else can speak for catamarans and tri hulls. i have yet to sail either one in weather.
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Old 23-06-2017, 07:16   #3
cat herder, extreme blacksheep

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 18,967
Images: 56
Re: Come ugly weather, is more underbody a liability?

having been thru heavy weather in both a shallow draft lighter alleged performance cruiser and in a heavy long keeled ketch, i can tell ye first hand side by side testing showed the more comfortable option is the heavy full keeled cruiser. first off, the full keeled cruiser will be no slower in heavy weather than the performance cruiser. bashing is bashing. i also enjoy the fact i go out when the lighter boats are running into marinas for their lives .
my formosa is only just starting to stretch her legs in 20 kts, and loves more wind.
as for heaving to, i sail thru storms. i donot go out when a cyclonic event is predicted, yes i guess that makes me a woossy girl. big deal i am not stoopit. it is easier to "heave to" a full keeled ketch than a fin / spade sloop. funny how that works.
as for underwater movement, i donot feel that in my formosa. we were tossed around mightily in gom in that lighter sloop than i ever have been in my heavy ketch.
ps i can cook in my ketch while under way, i could not cook in the performance cruiser while we were underway. a lot to be said for the heaviness and comfort the heavier full keeled boats provide.
someone else can speak for catamarans and tri hulls. i have yet to sail either one in weather.
as for heavy weather, i prefer to sail thru it than take what is sent at me. and i do sail all night, not sit in mid passage ditching my watch to go below for entertainment which can wait until the business end of the passage is done and boat at anchor.
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