Help from strangers while docking? A poll and my rambling musings.

[Atcowboy]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

A fraught subject. Early on I was an eager beaver for helping, but i couldn't always read the situation, and so my help wasn't always appreciated.

The poll needs one more choice: sometimes I appreciate the help, sometimes I don't mind the help, and sometimes I politely decline.

I think this is option three

[Atcowboy]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I have a perfect plan and set up for solo docking even pretty large boats. But...


I don’t mind if someone ashore wants to grab a line and cleat it up.

Makes it a little easier and it really can’t go very wrong unless they don’t get it on the cleat, but that’s never happened in all my decades.

I’m off the boat the second it’s got any line cleated and already doing the others and adjusting everything so the boat sits nicely.

I feel this is similar to yelling at your significant other when grabbing a mooring ball or during anchoring.

It’s just not something you should get worked up about.

I've had the opportunity to teach a few people to sail (and dock) on my boat and like the "slow is smooth, and smooth is fast" mantra. Usually explaining something like, "if it requires you to rush or muscle it, you're not doing it right. I'm not going to put you in that position either".

My skill as a sailor has gotten to the point where I can usually be true to that statement, so someone learning can take the time to methodically go through the process while I assure them it's time to learn not to rush.

- AT

[Atcowboy]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I appreciate the help, but I too have experienced the inexperienced line handler who really screws you up. The most shocking for me was in a lock when the lockhand, whom I foolishly assumed knew what she was doing, insisted on taking our bow line and then proceed to haul in hard while our stern was being blown in the wind. That created a major F-up!

In general, I try and give clear instructions to unknown dock handlers. Unlike others here, I find most boaters are experienced enough to know what to do. Some of the more common issues are, as rslifkin says, people thinking they can muscle our boat in -- our 30,000# boat!

"Hold this line, DON'T pull on it! Put it on a cleat! And don't ever put yourself between us and the dock!!" are common commands.

I was leaving a dock in high wind with current, had formulated a plan, and was prepping my lines so I could slip them from the boat. The marina owner was there and basically said, I'm here to help so don't bother but I need to go help other people. I told her my plan, she agreed it sounded appropriate. Then she proceeded to do not one thing in the plan as my boat tries to decide if it's drifting in the current or sailing in the gale, crashing into her fixed dockage....

- AT

[landsend]

Only appreciate the help when wind or current make docking tricky. My wife isn't very agile. But I always tell the dock hand/helper where to tie the line.
I try to help others but I always wait for their instructions. It's their boat.

[siamese]

I accept help only as a last resort. I'm good about having a plan and communicating it to whoever's helping, but that doesn't mean the "helper" will listen. There are a lot of interesting personalities out there.

This applies to other boaters on the dock and to marina staff when cruising and entering a strange slip.

Bottom line is, we're going to do it MY way, because if the helper doesn't listen or has their own stupid plan, I can assure you they're not going to pay for the damage they've done.

I also avoid giving help unless asked. Not saying I never volunteer, but on many occasions the boat owner is so incompetent, a disaster is inevitable, and I don't want to be part of it. The owner is often too busy yelling at his wife because the two of them haven't formulated a plan, and neither one of them has any useful information for me, so I'm left to guess what to do.

[A la carte]

I always appreciate help when coming in with my heavy 44 footer, but also try to be proficient enough that I don't need to rely on it. We both have older knees (and everything else ��) so, help often results in a slower and calmer step off of the rail. The other benefit of help is meeting fellow sailors as we thank them for their kindness. For departures, I tend to plan well and go it alone so there are no surprises.

[JPA Cate]

It can be awkward, sometimes, especially where they are standing where I want to land. We usually approach a dock with a spring line from the midship cleat, which we want to go on the aft-most cleat on the finger. It is amazing how few "helpers" are familiar with the tactic, so they don't know what to do, even when I say, "Put this eye on (pointing) that cleat." What I have yet to do is say, "NO thanks, please move, I'll do it." I get a bit tongue-tied, wanting to do it all just right.

Being there are two of us, I get on our boarding step, which is a secure and easy step down to the dock, carrying both the stern line and the midships spring. I put the spring on first, and the stern line, as well. Jim comes down for the bow line, or I go get it and secure it while he turns off the engine. Some depends on how much strength there is in a wind blowing us off. Then he has to use the engine to straighten out the boat, and I am in charge of the bow line, which incidentally, is led outside everything, next to our perforated toe rail, all the way back to the capshroud, so it is only a few quick steps to line in hand, and then securing it. If the tail is long enough, I heave it back aboard; if I have to leave the tail on the dock, I Flemish the line, for less tripping hazard.

I'm afraid I haven't always been as polite as I ought to when people come to help, but I do think we should thank them, even when we don't need help--after all, they came -- out of self-preservation -- or the goodness of their hearts to help.

Ann

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Atcowboy

I've had the opportunity to teach a few people to sail (and dock) on my boat and like the "slow is smooth, and smooth is fast" mantra. Usually explaining something like, "if it requires you to rush or muscle it, you're not doing it right. I'm not going to put you in that position either".

My skill as a sailor has gotten to the point where I can usually be true to that statement, so someone learning can take the time to methodically go through the process while I assure them it's time to learn not to rush.

- AT

OK. Sounds good. Not sure how that is a response to what I had written. I didn’t mention speed in my post. But sounds reasonable.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

It can be awkward, sometimes, especially where they are standing where I want to land. We usually approach a dock with a spring line from the midship cleat, which we want to go on the aft-most cleat on the finger. It is amazing how few "helpers" are familiar with the tactic, so they don't know what to do, even when I say, "Put this eye on (pointing) that cleat." What I have yet to do is say, "NO thanks, please move, I'll do it." I get a bit tongue-tied, wanting to do it all just right.

Being there are two of us, I get on our boarding step, which is a secure and easy step down to the dock, carrying both the stern line and the midships spring. I put the spring on first, and the stern line, as well. Jim comes down for the bow line, or I go get it and secure it while he turns off the engine. Some depends on how much strength there is in a wind blowing us off. Then he has to use the engine to straighten out the boat, and I am in charge of the bow line, which incidentally, is led outside everything, next to our perforated toe rail, all the way back to the capshroud, so it is only a few quick steps to line in hand, and then securing it. If the tail is long enough, I heave it back aboard; if I have to leave the tail on the dock, I Flemish the line, for less tripping hazard.

I'm afraid I haven't always been as polite as I ought to when people come to help, but I do think we should thank them, even when we don't need help--after all, they came -- out of self-preservation -- or the goodness of their hearts to help.

Ann

This. Exactly. Could not agree more. Getting those lines all routed “outside the fence” as I say to the not so experienced people i usually have aboard and getting them all to the planned boat departure points is key to making everything easy.

I also absolutely love Flemish coils and use them everywhere except a momentary tie up at a fuel dock. I use them on the boat deck as well if the excesses line is retuned to the boat.

[Fore and Aft]

Atcowboy I am on strangers boats every week and will at the most tie a rope on a cleat if asked. Most of the time I just hold the boat while the owner gets on the dock and does his own version of tying up.
On our own yacht I let anyone grab a line. We are always slow and steady and there shouldn't be an issue. I have had a few docking issues but it's always the nut behind the wheel that's the problem.
Cheers

[Juanvaldez]

I was once waved off by an inexperienced boater only to watch in horror as they slammed into the dock, had no fenders ready, only had one line ready. I watched as long as I could but they were at risk of hurting themselves, others or someone else's boat. The wife was trying to jump off with the bow line. Hubby couldn't get close enough and was all flustered after his initial approach/collision. I ended up helping...was a bit annoyed to see just how unprepared they were as I held them off the dock for several minutes while they prepared fenders. They were good people just no experience and no plan.

As new as I am to bigger boats, I realized all the years of messing around in smaller ones adds up (suffered from several years of twoftitis). I'm continually seeing big money, big boats having a litany of troubles at the docks. I often wonder how they ended up in these big beautiful boats with what seems like no experience whatsoever. Obviously not trading their way up to them.

I always offer help and will wait if it seems like they are not sure what they are doing or are in trouble. Almost everyone accepts the help. I guess no one who boats where I am hangs out on this forum lol. I never turn a helping hand away either. It's very obvious when an experienced boater is helping. I use those experiences to add to my knowledge base and likewise try and pass along what I can.

Sean

[Benz]

I have a decoy line that does nothing that I toss to the wasters on the dock. Makes them think they're helping while the wife gets ashore with the spring line. It has plenty of slack inboard so they can't snub me off sudden.
If I actually need a waster to cleat a line, I usually tell them to "drop this loop over that cleat" before I toss it over, and look for a spark of recognition.
When I catch lines for people, I appreciate clear instructions as well.

[landsend]

Originally Posted by Benz

I have a decoy line that does nothing that I toss to the wasters on the dock. Makes them think they're helping while the wife gets ashore with the spring line. It has plenty of slack inboard so they can't snub me off sudden.
If I actually need a waster to cleat a line, I usually tell them to "drop this loop over that cleat" before I toss it over, and look for a spark of recognition.
When I catch lines for people, I appreciate clear instructions as well.

Wasters?

[Jamme]

Safety and clarity before anything else.
When I am at the dock and I see someone approaching, I show up and stand by, making absolutely sure they understand I will not take action unless instructed by the skipper. When I come in, I’d love to receive the same treatment. If I perceive any confusion with any helper while I am docking, I clearly decline the help — safety and clarity before politeness; there’s always time to make up for it once docked!
Fair winds.

[Atcowboy]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

It can be awkward, sometimes, especially where they are standing where I want to land. We usually approach a dock with a spring line from the midship cleat, which we want to go on the aft-most cleat on the finger. It is amazing how few "helpers" are familiar with the tactic, so they don't know what to do, even when I say, "Put this eye on (pointing) that cleat." What I have yet to do is say, "NO thanks, please move, I'll do it." I get a bit tongue-tied, wanting to do it all just right.

Being there are two of us, I get on our boarding step, which is a secure and easy step down to the dock, carrying both the stern line and the midships spring. I put the spring on first, and the stern line, as well. Jim comes down for the bow line, or I go get it and secure it while he turns off the engine. Some depends on how much strength there is in a wind blowing us off. Then he has to use the engine to straighten out the boat, and I am in charge of the bow line, which incidentally, is led outside everything, next to our perforated toe rail, all the way back to the capshroud, so it is only a few quick steps to line in hand, and then securing it. If the tail is long enough, I heave it back aboard; if I have to leave the tail on the dock, I Flemish the line, for less tripping hazard.

I'm afraid I haven't always been as polite as I ought to when people come to help, but I do think we should thank them, even when we don't need help--after all, they came -- out of self-preservation -- or the goodness of their hearts to help.

Ann

This sounds very similar to my plan. My boat is quite small, 27', and didn't come with a midship cleat. So full rig would be a bow line, stern line, and one spring from each of them as well. The springs are color coded and three strand where the bows are double braid so I know what everything is at a glance. I also lead them all back to the helm so when I jump (cockpit exit) they're all there. Cleating the bow spring and the stern stops it nicely.

So usually my problem is Mr snatchy grabs one of my lines from the bow and cleats it as fast as possible.

I've also never had luck with telling people to loop things. Eyes get cleated. I have had a bight of rope I was draping over a cleat removed from my hand and turned into a snarl of opposing half hitches. Thanks lol

- AT