Heeling!

[SailingPNW]

It has been interesting to read the thread, sea sickness is an interesting thing, hearing all the symptoms I would hazard a guess that fear might be adding to the issue. Personally I feel the motion of a sailboat gets a bit better with some heel since you roll a bit less. Especially if the conditions are nice.

There are so many factors though, so while a cat could solve some of the issues, it's not a sure thing, especially if the problem is starting with almost no heel.

I really think you should check out the dinghy idea, a lot of clubs have dingy fleets and have sailing programs for kids so you might look at that. This would allow your kids to work with some other people along with eliminating the need to buy and maintain another boat along with storage issues.

Another thing you might want to try other than medication is ginger candy for the kids. Ginger has a settling effect on the stomach so can provide a natural option with fewer side effects than drugs, though every one is different so there isn't a single right answer.

[mglonnro]

Originally Posted by SailingPNW

It has been interesting to read the thread, sea sickness is an interesting thing, hearing all the symptoms I would hazard a guess that fear might be adding to the issue. Personally I feel the motion of a sailboat gets a bit better with some heel since you roll a bit less. Especially if the conditions are nice.

Yes, I feel the same, that there’s an optimal amount of heel where the motion is ”in the groove”. And yes, fear has a lot to do with it for one of the kids. For the other, I think the physical side affects more. But certainly, it’s a very multifaceted issue with a lot of influencing components. The heeling (per se) is both a trigger to psychological reactions as well as a physical influencer, I believe.

There are so many factors though, so while a cat could solve some of the issues, it's not a sure thing, especially if the problem is starting with almost no heel.

I agree.

I really think you should check out the dinghy idea, a lot of clubs have dingy fleets and have sailing programs for kids so you might look at that. This would allow your kids to work with some other people along with eliminating the need to buy and maintain another boat along with storage issues.

Yes, will do that. The next club courses are next spring ����

Another thing you might want to try other than medication is ginger candy for the kids. Ginger has a settling effect on the stomach so can provide a natural option with fewer side effects than drugs, though every one is different so there isn't a single right answer.

Yes! We have those as well. I’m not sure of the effect, but it’s one of the igredients in the mix.

Thanks for replying!

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by mglonnro

And yes, fear has a lot to do with it for one of the kids. For the other, I think the physical side affects more. But certainly, it’s a very multifaceted issue with a lot of influencing components. The heeling (per se) is both a trigger to psychological reactions as well as a physical influencer, I believe.

I firmly believe 98% of seasickness is mental. Do your kids ride bicycles? You "heel" just as much on a bike albeit just when you're turning, the motion is far more unpredictable and jerky, and speed is comparable to sailing. If your kids don't get seasick riding a bike, then they should be able to overcome seasickness on a boat.

The physiological trigger to motion-sickness is actually very weak, and easily overcome. The reason that looking at the horizon works for many is that they are then able to either logically reconcile the motion with what is seen, or seeing they are not turning upside-down, they are then able to deliberately "override" the sensation that causes queasiness.

Anti-nausea medications are mild sedatives; not so strong that they knock you out, but enough to numb the "trigger" - but it's also why they induce sleepiness. The elastic band on the wrist or paperclip on the ear act by distraction - they focus the mind on "that other minor irritation" so the stomach is forgotten. The same thing with tasks - keep their minds on other chores, and they won't have the opportunity to start obsessing over the mild inner-ear turmoil.

I join the chorus in saying "get the kids out dinghy sailing" and go one further by suggesting that once they have the basics down, and if they have the right temperament (you know your kids) have them compete against one another - nothing like sibling competition to convince them to push the limits. When they equate heeling with going fast, and hence winning, they'll appreciate it more. Mind you it might have to be made very clear to the nervous nelly that dinghies turtle (in fact a good programme will have them do capsize recovery drills) but the ballast keeps that from happening in the big boat.

[mglonnro]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

I firmly believe 98% of seasickness is mental. Do your kids ride bicycles? You "heel" just as much on a bike albeit just when you're turning, the motion is far more unpredictable and jerky, and speed is comparable to sailing. If your kids don't get seasick riding a bike, then they should be able to overcome seasickness on a boat.

They all respond differently but generally they are fine on land We've experienced some mild car sickness as well, though.

The physiological trigger to motion-sickness is actually very weak, and easily overcome. The reason that looking at the horizon works for many is that they are then able to either logically reconcile the motion with what is seen, or seeing they are not turning upside-down, they are then able to deliberately "override" the sensation that causes queasiness.

Anti-nausea medications are mild sedatives; not so strong that they knock you out, but enough to numb the "trigger" - but it's also why they induce sleepiness. The elastic band on the wrist or paperclip on the ear act by distraction - they focus the mind on "that other minor irritation" so the stomach is forgotten. The same thing with tasks - keep their minds on other chores, and they won't have the opportunity to start obsessing over the mild inner-ear turmoil.

I join the chorus in saying "get the kids out dinghy sailing" and go one further by suggesting that once they have the basics down, and if they have the right temperament (you know your kids) have them compete against one another - nothing like sibling competition to convince them to push the limits. When they equate heeling with going fast, and hence winning, they'll appreciate it more. Mind you it might have to be made very clear to the nervous nelly that dinghies turtle (in fact a good programme will have them do capsize recovery drills) but the ballast keeps that from happening in the big boat.

Thank you for your interesting thoughts!

On thing I came across in the research world is that people with a non-functioning vestibular system don't get seasick. That would lead me to think the physiological part is quite significant as well? Anyway, it seems the causes of motion sickness are likely somewhat understood, but good cures (for everyone) aren't yet available.

[JPA Cate]

Actually, keeping one's ears parallel to the horizon, whether helming or just being in the cockpit, lessens the "sloshing" of the fluid in one's semi-circular canals, and that changes the signals one's brain gets.

mglonnro, get hold of the NASA article that I mentioned in my first post in this thread, it is very good on the physiology of motion sickness: far better than I can render it, if you want to spend the energy to have a fuller understanding.

Whether or not fear is a component, the distress the sufferer has is real. Being cold, wet, and terrified will make it worse, and breathing diesel fumes will, too. And, just so's you know, for some of us this "it's all in your head" attitude can really get up our nose. You who haven't spent years trying to find something that works for you, because the motion doesn't trouble you simply DO NOT know enough about it, unless you're some kind of specialist in diseases like Meuniere's Syndrome, or a neurologist. I am not afraid when the boat heels. I could never have kept on cruising for so many years if I had been. But, when the motion gets jerky, I get queasy. I can mostly overcome it, but if it is going to be hours on the wind and jerky, I will feel yucky without the meds. My body is very clear with me about this. Whatever gives someone mal de mer on land, whatever that motion is, if it bothers his or her body, it will also bother them at sea. We have had people below decks whom the slight motion of the boat at anchor makes them queasy, and some whom it bothers even above decks.


Ann

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

And, just so's you know, for some of us this "it's all in your head" attitude can really get up our nose.

Not to get up your nose about it, but it appears NASA agrees with me: https://www.seeker.com/nasa-mind-tra...766490924.html

For general interest, our Air Force has been using a similar training regime (colloquially known as "spin and puke" training) on queasy pilots for decades. Our Navy has occasionally sent sailors to do it (our forces are combined, so not a difficult task). The purpose isn't to "cure" motion-sickness, but rather to train the afflicted individual to spot the incipient stages that are unique to them, and use various techniques to "walk back from the edge" (biofeedback, breathing exercises, mental exercises, etc).

I don't get seasick, but it's not because I never get queasy - I do, but after I joined the Navy, I worked out for myself how to suppress the sensations. What got up my nose was being surrounded by people hunched over with their faces stuffed in plastic bags half-filled with warm stomach juices - talk about the self-fulfilling prophesies.

[capt jgw]

Everyone reacts differently. One woman I know could be out in the most horrific conditions and be fine. I've seen her do it. But sitting in the slip with a motion that no one else could even feel would drive her nuts. She'd either have to get off the boat or puke on the spot. With the OP's kids, as others have said, sounds to me like more of a fear reaction. More experience and education may cure it. Or they're just typical teens or preteens and don't want to do anything their parents are interested in. BTDT, didn't want the T shirt. They don't sail with us either now that they're grown on on their own. But our grand kids love it. Very fortunate we are in that respect.

[B_Hunter45]

herbal tea with ginger will do the trick.
no more sea sickness.
have fun

[Joli]

If the problem is sea sickness, not healing, a cat may not be the answer. The motion is very different between monos and cats. A cat will faithly follow the contour of the sea, as such, the motion is more of a corkscrew type motion upwind in largish waves. It doesn't bother me but my wife who is prone to seasickness, cannot sail on cats, even + 60' cats. She has not been sick on our 61' mono in the same conditions. As others have mentioned, it would be best to charter one and sail up and down in some seaway and breeze to find out if everyone is OK with the motion.

[HeinSdL]

Originally Posted by mglonnro

Of course I am (or we are) subjecting the children to what we dream would be great for them (and us). That, to me, is generally how parenting works.

I think this is quite true. We have had some issues in terms of enjoyment on our way from Denmark to the Med but while I was always super careful to make sure my partner and I were content with what we were doing, for our kids the 'agenda' was somewhat different.

Mid teens son joined on the trip from NL to southern Spain and I never really enquired if this was OK with him. In the end it was a tough but tremendous experience, and a healthy experience for our son.

Partner and early teens daughter were on board from southern Spain into the Med which was a somewhat easier and more 'fun' leg. And when we ended up anchored offshore Corsica there was no more doubt in anyone's mind.

So, partner wise I take care, kids wise not so much. If they don't like the activities I like then they still have their full life ahead of them to do whatever they like (during which they will no doubt discover that organising holidays to everyone's content is difficult) but I am not going to in the meantime waste my good years while I have strength and some cash to accommodate kids' wishes. Especially if you're talking about the kind of activities being discussed here as opposed to sitting on the couch watching the tube and surfing the net while the sun shines outside.

[Walter73]

kids - dinghy sailing camp with other kids..a parent dragging them along (to anything) won't get them enthusiastic.

Flotilla charter with other families (similar age groups)

Try different things before committing, get buy in to a concept from the family at the end of the day you can't force people only guide them in a direction.

Training - seeing how other skippers manage things also remember you don't gain anything by sailing it on its ear. The usual stuff as well keep the crew eating drinking and active, delegate, stick the sick one on the helm etc etc

[skipgundlach]

My apologies for not reading every one...

Stugeron is widely available (dunno about Finland) other than in the USA.

My wife is queasy initially on any cruise where we've been stable for more than a week or so.

Solution? Stugeron per label the day before and continuing as needed past the first couple of days.

Much preferred to other solutions, mechanical, electronic or prescription, and inexpensive. Many strengths; we use (well, she does, I'm not affected) 15mg tablets.

Enjoy - if the kids can avoid being uncomfortable in the gut, they'll likely become great crew as they get older...

L8R

Skip

[johnmort]

Scopolamine the patch that you place behind your ear works fantastic for the prevention of sea sickness.
Placed behind the ear 12 hours before sailing and worn for upto 3days, your body doesn’t know it has left dry land.

[skipgundlach]

Originally Posted by johnmort

Scopolamine the patch that you place behind your ear works fantastic for the prevention of sea sickness.
Placed behind the ear 12 hours before sailing and worn for upto 3days, your body doesn’t know it has left dry land.

Our experience contributed to our wreck.

It worked just fine, other than the blue vision, and that the second one placed a full day later fell off due to sweat preventing good adhesion (always wipe the landing spot with alcohol first!), meaning she was without protection - and wound up seasick and mostly on the saloon sole, rather than watching the charts closely.

As above, we prefer stugeron, now...

[LeeV]

IMHO, the first issue is to make sure you don't lose your family as participants. To that end, I'd explore smaller boat classes or chartering a cat for a weekend or week and maybe do so with a captain who can teach the entire family at once and make it fun.


My wife did NOT like heeling and I wound up with several trimarans and now a cat. She's still learning to sail; the difference is once she sailed on a chartered cat and now stepped aboard our "new to us" cat, she's planning trips. Something worked :-)


Best of luck