Forget Covid, Fukushima is what you should be really worried about

[requiem]

Originally Posted by CassidyNZ

I’m not sure of the US tax structures but surely the cost of electricity (which would include the cost of nukes) is borne by the consumer of the electricity? Is it subsidised by federal or state government (tax payer)? I never thought it was but I’ve been wrong once or twice before now.

As Dockhead mentioned, it's the externalities. The estimates I've seen for burning coal are tens of thousands of premature deaths each year (for US and EU), which represents a great deal of health care spending and lost economic productivity.

[Singularity]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

...The risk from COVID to the population under 60 is similar to the flu -- as the head of the Finnish health services said a few weeks ago, and as the science supports. This whole thing is about privileged retired people, at the expense of everyone else. We should be ashamed.

Shame is a powerful world.

You should be ashamed for repeating unsubstantiated claims that people here previously took significant time debunking, where very specific numbers from other country's government data banks for mortality in younger people was given showing orders of magnitude greater mortality than with flu.

It's absurd to repetitively cite Finland as a) representative of the rest of the world's epidemiological considerations even if you knew what you were talking about, while b) not providing so much as hard numbers from Finland itself. I'm sorry, but you're just out of touch. I'm not being emotional, I'm citing that a philosophy major lawyer is having difficulty with multivariate science topics.

Please stop.
[or moderators please appreciate that calls for shaming and/or such repeated misinformation may result in more harsh that this reality testing].

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by CassidyNZ

I read somewhere that five major conflicts in which the United States was involved throughout the 20th century: World War I, Korea, Vietnam and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq resulted in the deaths of something like 140,000 Americans.

CV19 has now been attributed with (in round numbers) 220,000 deaths in the US alone and you believe this to be “hardly a blip”? Holy cow!!

And one wonders what the cost of those conflicts was to America compared to the cost of lockdowns. I’m not going to bother researching that but I reckon that by comparison, given the US defence budget for 2021 alone is $740b, the cost of CV19 is the real blip. 30m people in poverty (of which 15m were probably already in poverty before CV19) beats the heck out of 1/4 million people dead.

One of the major differences is that the war casualties were primarily young men and the vast majority of the covid dead old people.

If I'm a 80 year old person battling to stay alive because a number of health problems are shortening my life and was only going to stay alive another year and covid knocks me off do you count it as a covid death or a 1/81 fraction of a death?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Singularity

Shame is a powerful world.

It is. And I don't utter it lightly. It's taken me a few months of open-minded contemplation and study to come to this conclusion.

Originally Posted by Singularity

You should be ashamed for repeating unsubstantiated claims that people here previously took significant time debunking, where very specific numbers from other country's government data banks for mortality in younger people was given showing orders of magnitude greater mortality than with flu.

Let's see the numbers. I'm still open minded. "Unsubstantiated"? This is the official position of one of the most enlightened countries in the world.


And when we have THOSE numbers, let's see some sober evaluation of the human cost of lockdown, and see how it stacks up.

[CassidyNZ]

Originally Posted by billgewater

In Aus. there is talk of seriously really massive solar collectors in the NT. We have no shortage of space or sun or wind.

Yes this is a truly amazing development. To quote from a press article:

“Sun Cable is the company behind the $20 billion project located in the heart of the Northern Territory, Tennant Creek. It is the world’s biggest solar farm and one of Australia’s largest ever construction projects. The large-scale solar farm equals across an area of more than 20,000 soccer fields. If successful, the development would include a 10-gigawatt-capacity array of panels spread across 15,000 hectares, backed by about 22 gigawatt-hours in battery storage to ensure it can supply power around the clock.”

It does say “if successful” so it apparently isn’t a total given. In another article I read there was comment that an undersea cable would transport this electricity to Singapore and would become a significant export for Australia.

The size of the array is reported as being 2.4 million solar panels. Sort of eclipses the array on my boat

[Luckyknot]

I'm sorry Dockhead, I have to disagree with you again. With COVID I don't believe the problem is/was lockdown; it was people not adhering to it for a short period followed by a good plan that people followed upon reopening. Nobody (in the USA) acted right so this whole thing just keeps dragging on. We could've been done with the worst of it already but everybody needs to cry when they are told what to do. It's not a violation of personal freedoms, its just letting more knowledgable people lead you for a little bit. I don't think its unreasonable to think that a significant portion of the population STOPPED washing their hands here in the states once they were told they "HAD" to do it. That's how childish this country has become (always was? I'm only in my 30s so a pretty new adult). But I do agree, we should be ashamed, just for a different reason

As for nuclear power and Fukushima; lots of sense already talking. The fear comes from a massive lack of knowledge. Not anyone's fault per se, it's just a very complex form of power generation that takes a number of years of study to understand. Conspiracy theories prey on these societal knowledge gaps. Water that was considered potentially radioactive is dumped all the time after testing to make sure it falls below certain threshholds. This is nothing new.

[sv_pelagia]

Flu vs Covid hospitalizations: rate per 100,000 (from CDC)

18-49 yrs: 33.4 vs 128.1
50-64 yrs: 89.5 vs 280.7
65+ yrs: 172.3 vs 509.7

Above for all ethnicities; COVID hospitalization rate significantly (!) higher in non-white populations

[AKA-None]

Meanwhile in the pacific a certain atoll leaks long half-life radioactive substances with no comment in this thread

[jimbunyard]

Originally Posted by Luckyknot

I'm sorry Dockhead, I have to disagree with you again. With COVID I don't believe the problem is/was lockdown; it was people not adhering to it for a short period followed by a good plan that people followed upon reopening. Nobody (in the USA) acted right so this whole thing just keeps dragging on. We could've been done with the worst of it already but everybody needs to cry when they are told what to do. It's not a violation of personal freedoms, its just letting more knowledgable people lead you for a little bit. I don't think its unreasonable to think that a significant portion of the population STOPPED washing their hands here in the states once they were told they "HAD" to do it. That's how childish this country has become (always was? I'm only in my 30s so a pretty new adult). But I do agree, we should be ashamed, just for a different reason ....

Taiwan; Population 23 million, 540 cases, 7 deaths

NYC Greater metro area; Population 20 million, 260,000 cases, 24,000 deaths

Both became aware of the problem at the same time. One took it seriously (they remembered, and had first hand experience, with the SARS epidemic); the standard protocol has been known for about a hundred years (though technological 'improvements' over the last 20 years have aided contact tracing tremendously).

The other basically ignored it --- until it was too late, with entirely predictable (and predicted) results.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

Taiwan; Population 23 million, 540 cases, 7 deaths

NYC Greater metro area; Population 20 million, 260,000 cases, 24,000 deaths

Both became aware of the problem at the same time. One took it seriously (they remembered, and had first hand experience, with the SARS epidemic); the standard protocol has been known for about a hundred years (though technological 'improvements' over the last 20 years have aided contact tracing tremendously).

The other basically ignored it --- until it was too late, with entirely predictable (and predicted) results.

Taiwan, like Japan and South Korea, and like all of the Nordic countries, never had any lockdown.

[jimbunyard]

Uhhh --- neither did the US.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

Uhhh --- neither did the US.

Seriously?





http://www.isaacson.info/wp-content/...s-lockdown.png

[Island Time O25]

Had a physical a week ago. My PCP, an ethnic Chinese but born here in US. About my age, i.e. late 50s. Very experienced, etc. I asked him what we could've done as a country to better ride out the pandemic.

His answer was pretty simple. He did mention Taiwan, etc. saying that all we needed to do is to have 100% of the population wear masks for 20 days and to just quietly bury those who had severe co-morbidities and were susceptible to C19, without fuss and political grandstanding.

While it may sound harsh and uncaring, IMO it is infinitely more humane to bury the 0.1% comprising mostly of 80+ year olds then to make the 99.9% suffer for the next umpteen years, perhaps for the next few generations.

We have developed a convoluted and truly inhumane view of "humanity" where we spend untold resources to save a 5mos preemie crack baby while denying the same resources to a bunch of healthy happy 5year olds. Same with our response to C19 but just from the other end of the age scale. That's the true shame these days.

[jimbunyard]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Seriously?


Attachment 225523


http://www.isaacson.info/wp-content/...s-lockdown.png

Just, (to show I could), answering one nonsense statement

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Taiwan, like Japan and South Korea, and like all of the Nordic countries, never had any lockdown.

with a slightly less nonsense one.

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

Uhhh --- neither did the US.

The 'lockdown' in the US was so delayed, misapplied and short as to have no real effect on shortening the duration of the US epidemic.

Unlike the calibrated, concentrated, intensive lockdowns in the necessary portions of all the areas where they purportedly "never had any lockdown".

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

. . . Unlike the calibrated, concentrated, intensive lockdowns in the necessary portions of all the areas where they purportedly "never had any lockdown".

This is not correct. None of the countries named had "lockdown", using the term precisely, meaning stay at home orders and mass closing of businesses.



"Never had any lockdown" was a precisely correct description.

That doesn't mean there were no measures. All of these countries took effective measures and are still taking them.

But the measures in Taiwan were even lighter than in Sweden. See here: https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tai...sons-1.5505031

In Taiwan, there was no closing of schools except for an extra two weeks added to winter holidays. In Sweden, high schools and unis were closed for months.

In Taiwan, restaurants operated normally throughout. In Sweden, restaurants were kept open but were required to spread out tables, and serving food other than at tables was banned.

And etc.

The Taiwanese acted very quickly and implemented contact tracing the way they did it in South Korea, and the way it's now being done in Germany and Sweden.

All of these countries have avoided the immensely destructive clusterfumble we've had in the U.S., which is the worst of all possible worlds, huge rates of infection, economic destruction, destroyed jobs and lives.