Cruising with regular household fans?

[ThereAndBack]

Originally Posted by wingssail

However you are wrong to say that the power consumption of the Vornado and a Caframo is probably similar. It's not. The Caframo is moving 200cfm for 5 watts (.364 of an amp). If you assume the power to air movement on the Vornado is linear then it's 415cfm @ 44 watts (3.66 amps) means it could move 200cfm @ 21 watts, which is 1.75 amps, or about 5 times as much power.

So I looked up the documents on this. It seems the minimum CFM of the Vornado is 114 CFM which is probably what we're getting at "startup" setting and that is roughly 5-6 watts. The power curve of the CFM/Watt is probably not linear. I'll try to get out the ole clamp meter and test the power between a Caframo and the Vornado at "similar wind feels", but I guess that wouldn't be very scientific. I suppose my point is that...

I had the 12v fans for about a year on my boat, then switched to these brushless DC fans and I did not notice any discernible difference in power use. They've been in use about 6 months. I have 3 people aboard and we all use fans. We did notice an increase in comfort by switching.

For further details to help others, since you mention it... We are also full time cruisers. We haven't seen a dock since around New Years and haven't been plugged into shore power in roughly 12 months. I have a 400amp/hr 12v house bank and roughly 800w of solar (but the panels are 15 years old). My solar controller reports that we typically max out at around 400-500watts in full sun. We have run the generator for power one time in the last six months after a few days of very dark skies.

With that setup, we run these fans and it hasn't impacted our power situation in any real way.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I never bothered before but now that this came up I pulled out my energy meter and measured both fans.

The Black and Decker was disappointing at 28W low setting (which is all you need). The Honeywell much better, 20W at low setting, 23W at highest setting.

The boat fans, especially the Hella fans are a joke. In the early 2000’s they were okay’ish but it didn’t take long before they were reduced to cheap junk, sometimes so out of balance that they shook themselves apart, never moving any serious amount of air.

I can understand where some want the absolute minimum of airflow to get by without fainting but we are the decadent type that love to use 12” fans instead of masochistic 5” doll house fans

BTW, one Honeywell will easily replace a handful of Hella fans and even in our monohull stay put just like that

It would be interesting to know how much air they are moving for that much power. From an efficiency point of view that is important. The Vornado discussed above is about 25% as efficient as the 12v boat fans. But if you want a lot of air movement and the power does not bother you then the household fans can do that.

However I'll differ with you about the Hella fans. We've been using them onboard Wings since 1986. They do wear out and they also need servicing from time to time, but since the early 2000's they have been vastly improved in terms of useful life and quality of the electronic components inside. Since they have been made in China the resistors and capacitors are better quality and mounted better. The long life brushes have amazing durability. Like I mentioned we have seven installed and very often 4 running at a time. And I doubt if we've replaced more than one in the last five years. I will say that I know how to disassemble one and properly lube the bearings, which is needed from time to time.

But a joke, I wouldn't call them that. if you are looking for a high volume 20 watt fan, a 12v marine fan is not that. But it serves a purpose of keeping people cool for little power and that's what we want.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by ThereAndBack

[...] since you mention it... We are also full time cruisers. [...] With that setup, we run these fans and it hasn't impacted our power situation in any real way.

Exactly. It only took us 15 years of full time cruising to realize that often household items are better. Fans are definitely in that category, as are audio systems, computers, kitchen appliances, chinaware etc.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by ThereAndBack

...the minimum CFM of the Vornado is 114 CFM which is probably what we're getting at "startup" setting and that is roughly 5-6 watts...

The Hella turbo is rated at 70lt/sec (148cfm) at low speed, using .25 amps, or 3 watts.

For you it doesn't matter, for us it does.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by wingssail

It would be interesting to know how much air they are moving for that much power. From an efficiency point of view that is important. The Vornado discussed above is about 25% as efficient as the 12v boat fans.

No, you can’t come to that conclusion. First you need to come up with a 12V fan with a blade of equal size, which turns at a speed to provide equal airflow, before you can conclude that.

I can’t measure air movement but it feels like 5 hella fans.

About those: the ones we bought in 2002 lasted a year or more. The ones we bought in 2004-2005 did nit make it to 3 months, with one shaking apart within weeks.

-compared to- the Honeywell, the Hella fans are toys while they cost double.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Exactly. It only took us 15 years of full time cruising to realize that often household items are better. Fans are definitely in that category, as are audio systems, computers, kitchen appliances, chinaware etc.

Is that why you are using household refrigerators, Oh wait...

You haven't said in which way the house hold fans are better, except, I guess, you think the output of the 12v fans is so slight it constitutes being a "joke".

They certainly are not in terms of efficiency (power used to air moved).

Maybe cost for the amount of air moved. I'll give you that.

But if you are claiming that (they are a "joke" based on the meager amount of air you feel, well then you'd probably think my 34hp engine is a joke compared to a 100hp engine. That seems a bit arrogant to me.

[ThereAndBack]

Originally Posted by wingssail

But if you are claiming that (they are a "joke" based on the meager amount of air you feel, well then you'd probably think my 34hp engine is a joke compared to a 100hp engine. That seems a bit arrogant to me.

Eh, I wouldn't say arrogant. The tool must be suited to its job. The job of the fan is to what? Move air, however, you must also ask how much air does it have to move for you to be happy/comfortable.

I wouldn't call a small engine a toy compared to a big engine, but if you tried to move a cargo ship with a 34hp engine, then I would.

What he is saying is that the 12v fans don't meet HIS standards for a fan to be called a "real fan". That isn't saying it won't meet yours. We're all in different bodies and different places. We have different needs.

I've always been the sort that breaks a sweat at 80f, while my crew can seem blissfully comfortable at 90f. I like/need a more powerful fan for it to be worthwhile.

I'm in FL in high humidity and temps. It helps me get by. I'll conceded the 12v option is more efficient, but it doesn't reach the power needed for the efficiency to be worth it for myself. So it is, in the end, a waste (for me). However, for you, it might be a powerful deciding factor.

We also all have different boats with different power needs and options. What is right for you can be right for you and it may be wrong for someone else. The OP wanted to know about household fans. We've given him our thoughts on doing it and you yours.

So now we can all take our "toys" and go home.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

No, you can’t come to that conclusion. First you need to come up with a 12V fan with a blade of equal size, which turns at a speed to provide equal airflow, before you can conclude that.

No I don't. It's simple, the household fan, the one for which we have numbers, the Vornado, moves 415cfm @ 44 watts which is 9.43 CFM/Watt.
The Hella Turbo moves 201CFM @ 6.5 watts which is 30 CFM/Watt. And that does not count any loss in the inverter.

I can’t measure air movement but it feels like 5 hella fans. Now if your Honeywell moves 5 times as much air for 20 Watts, That would be astonishingly good, but you cannot substantiate that, can you?

About those: the ones we bought in 2002 lasted a year or more. The ones we bought in 2004-2005 did nit make it to 3 months, with one shaking apart within weeks. You know, it's funny, I loaned one of my Hellas to a friend who was doing the China Sea Race and he came back with the same complaint, it shook like crazy, and he hated it. (he also broke it). But my experience has not been that. When they start to be noisy I lube them, and it good for a couple more years.

-compared to- the Honeywell, the Hella fans are toys while they cost double.

"Toys"? "Jokes"? Tell us how you really think. Here is what I think Jedi, you are so sure of you opinion that you are not willing to let anyone else's experience sway you at all. You're not giving me any credit whatsoever. I don't disrespect your view, but you certainly don't mind disrespecting mine.

[NakedCity]

I am currently at anchor on the St Johns River , July, Florida , sweating my a## off approximately 5 feet away from one of my six installed Hella Turbos and I can barely feel it. Just finished ordering the Vernado 610dc. I have a 660 amp house bank that won’t even feel it. ( But I hope I do ! ). BTW that Vernado appears to be 12 volt powered thru a brick on the cord.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by wingssail

"Toys"? "Jokes"? Tell us how you really think. Here is what I think Jedi, you are so sure of you opinion that you are not willing to let anyone else's experience sway you at all. You're not giving me any credit whatsoever. I don't disrespect your view, but you certainly don't mind disrespecting mine.

You act like if I didn’t deal with these puny overpriced low quality fans for years. I’ve had them all and while better than nothing, they are junk when it comes to comparing them with others. Even compared to the $10 truckers fans they fail miserably.

Of course my opinion does not sway: it have seen them all, tried them all and know what works for me and what doesn’t. It has nothing to do with disrespecting your view, it’s purely disrespect for these horrible fans.

You need to come up with 12V fans that can match the performance of the household fans before comparing efficiency. Because any less performance disqualifies the 12V fans for me and many others. You seem to be happy with their air flow and I am not telling you to replace them with big ones so why would you get so worked up about it?

They do exist, good 12V fans I mean: Fantastic has 9” or 10” fans of decent performance. I bought those too at $80 a piece. I stopped replacing them when they went over $100 a piece though

[ThereAndBack]

They actually convert to 24v. Let us know your feedback and stay cool! I find these help in conjunction with a fan.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PQLLZYD...p_mob_ap_share

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by NakedCity

I am currently at anchor on the St Johns River , July, Florida , sweating my a## off approximately 5 feet away from one of my six installed Hella Turbos and I can barely feel it. Just finished ordering the Vernado 610dc. I have a 660 amp house bank that won’t even feel it. ( But I hope I do ! ). BTW that Vernado appears to be 12 volt powered thru a brick on the cord.

yep.....And that is the reason to have at least one portable fan. You often need it where you are, close by.

[RickG]

We are happy with our six Caframo Sirroco II fans and our Fan-Tastic Vent 920 CFM fan https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1.

The Fan-Tastic has a 12-volt car cord and fits our hatches. We use it when it is super hot and there is little breeze. It spend 99% of the time stowed.

Cheers, RickG

[ohdrinkboy]

Thanks for all of the worthy conversation. I can see the regular Hella fans working for me most of the time. However, when the breeze stops coming down the hatch in the summer it's time to pull out the big fans.

[ForGrinsToo]

Originally Posted by Gary Matthesen

I have a cheap 24 inch mostly plastic (no rust) from Ace or Home depot. When your on a dock, with 110 volts your fine. If your motoring, run it through an inverter, your fine. If your sailing, wind is up, your fine.

Ditto, for $20 or so. When we're in a slip we will secure it over the forward hatch with a bungee cord. Whether set to blow in or out... almost always out at night because it is quieter over the berth, unless it is really hot. But during the day - we won't fight the breeze (if the wind is more or less over the bow, we'll set it to in). Worth noting that we have a weighted screen over the companionway, all protected by the dodger. But we mostly anchor out with a windscoop on the forward hatch. Power on board is precious unless you have an auxiliary generator.