Boat Insurers: Cartel or not? Time to leave BoatUS?

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Shaneesprit

I like this, I wouldn’t ever claim unless I had to, I could. Live with a much larger excess than companies offer, or maybe a policy that only would payout if the claim was above a certain value.

Those are called Deductibles, and most every insurance policy for anything has such included as standard policy terms.

[HighTemp]

Originally Posted by sail sfbay

High Temp...............I appreciate a catamaran is like having 2 mono hulls but have you considered going through an insurance broker to allow them to shop for the best price. I did that this year and they found Markel to offer a competitive rate.

Actually, I had 2 brokers looking into it for me. The best I can tell, the main reason for the increase is our location. US Gulf Coast. The second is the agreed hull value. Liveaboard may have had something to do with it, but the company I used last year, was unaware when they issued the renewal quote as we didn't move aboard until earlier in the year. When I informed them, it had no impact on the price.

[gdhb]

Avoid Edward William completely. It is just throwing money away. They will not ever pay a claim.

[Nepidae]

One thing I didn't see mentioned is that IF you change insurance companies you will probably have the additional cost of a survey.

No new insurance company would write paper on a boat without a current survey.

Good luck.

[TabbyCat]

[QUOTE=Wallaby;3212702]
'Rewritten' to me, is a red flag. Customers can ask for more information--I tried."

"Re-written" simply means you changed the zip code of your primary mooring location, so they re-wrote the policy to reflect that. No red flag.

[TabbyCat]

Originally Posted by SeeMonstrEd

Fo
Has anyone else heard of ION Insurance or Edward Williams SL out of Spain?

OMG, not this again. Please do some research.

[Scratchee]

Originally Posted by Nepidae

...I have USAA for home & auto and called them to see if they'd insure the...

I was halfway through this thread before I remembered that I myself used to be insured through BoatUS, when I bought my first (and only, so far) boat in 2012. A couple years later they sent me a renewal with a substantial increase in premium. I don't remember how much, but it was probably in the neighborhood of the 20% that others have mentioned. I called them to ask why, and they really didn't have a good answer. So I called USAA, and ended up with a Progressive policy that is administered/billed/whatever through USAA. The premium has remained stable even after a relatively expensive tow a couple years ago.

On the topic of being "self insured," I've heard of ways to do it that satisfy a requirement from a third party like a marina or boat yard. It involves providing a bond or other instrument that proves that sufficient funds are earmarked and available to pay the required liability. This would be for people with deep pockets; it's far more than "don't worry, I'll pay for it if something happens."

[Tonali99]

As a coastal cruiser I've been with BoatUS for some time. Through the insurance company changes and all. No problems.
Now that it's with Geico [same as my truck] They have a hard time and no answers for my wanting to insure beyond the Bahamas. (I even sent them my CG papers for my seamanship)
Here's the question,
Anybody know a company that will insure the boat for beyond that?
No ocean crossing pasages, just the DR, P.R. and maybe further.
Without ruining my retirement.

[Mickeyrouse]

I have had boat insurance for about 32 years. In that time I have made 3 claims.
1) when our dinghy motor was stolen while the boat was locked and on the hard inside a “ secure” boat yard. Insurance paid new replacement value less $100 deductible, no hassle.
2) when our boat sank due to Hurricane Rita. Insurance paid constructive total loss on agreed insured value of the boat less deductible, no hassle.
3) when we had Hurricane Delta damage to our genoa (only shreds remaining) and toe rail this past September. Insurance paid claimed damage estimates less deductible, no bickering, no hassle.
Your experience may vary.
It is often overlooked what the concept of insurance is: a group of people , ( boat owners, car owners, home owners, etc) who share common risks, pool resources to protect the ( hopefully) few individuals who actually suffer losses from those common risks. That’s how Lloyd’s came about in the 17th century and the concept behind benevolent funds.
Each member of the risk pool would make a contribution to the fund (“ premiums”) based on risk of loss, exposure, etc. etc. As time passed and the insurance societies became self-sustaining the premiums began to include amounts for the administration of the fund, and generally servicing of the policies- claims, inspections and so forth. Over more time, this began to include commissions to agents, advertising, legal costs to protect from bogus (or simply too many )claims. The premise of the premium has always been “ risk adjusted:” If your sailboat is a gold-plater in Miami, the risk of a claim in dollars is far greater than for a 20 ft. trailer sailer in Bozeman, Montana. There are of course other variables.
State insurance commissions have gotten involved in more or less determining that the amount of a premium is not disproportionately allocated between creating reserves for future claims and “reasonable” costs for administrating and servicing claims, and that established reserves are adequate to pay the potential claims of a “ normal” year based on history and past claims.
What is rarely effected by the regulatory hand is the income derived by the investment side of any insurance company. As reserves against claims are accumulated, that creates huge pools of capital held by the insurance industry just begging to be invested. The cumulative amount of reserves held by just U.S. insurance companies of all kinds is measured in the trillions of dollars and is a massive source of funding in capital markets. Income from the investment side of the business is rarely used to pay claims.
In fact investment income can be so significant that in some parts of the insurance industry companies will accept a break-even on the risk side of the business just so they can hold the reserves to invest.
What I have found particularly galling is that part of each premium payment is used to establish reserves against future claims, but if I cancel, move to another carrier, or just let my policy lapse, the amount of my premium remains in the reserve pool without a refund even though I am no longer covered. Besides, if making a claim pursuant to a named storm, the deductible increases, from a stated amount like $100 or so, to 5% of the total insured value of the sessile. I understand the line “we just have so many claims after a hurricane.” I contend that if hurricane losses are disastrous, then the reserve pools are too low. If I have (and I have, twice) hurricane related losses, likelihood of damage to my boat has increased under those conditions. In other words, the greater my risk of need, the less that will be available. A blown-out Genoa coasts the same to replace, hurricane or not.
So, though I know more or less how insurance works, I still believe it to be a necessary evil. I have absolutely deplored the situations in which I had to make claims, but I was surely glad I had it

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by lwaugaman

Of all of the costs associated with owning a boat, insurance is one of the most reasonable IMO. Our boat is insured for $450k (10% deductible) and the premium is $1700/yr.

By contrast, my Harley Davidson motorcycle ($30k value) annual premium is $1400.

We use Traveler's for the boat BTW

Wow, that's incredible. Same value for me but I pay $10,000. But my policy covers pretty much the whole North Atlantic (except the arctic) and the Med with no layup period. My old policy for the Med with 8 months of lay-up was $3500 per year. My policy for coverage in the hurricane zone - crap - don't ask.

[ri4sail]

I too, just received a renewal policy from BoatUS/Geico that makes no sense. I have been with them for 30+ years with 2 claims, one for 2k after a lightening strike (15 years ago) and one for $1300 for a hull scrape to my own boat. They raised my premium 42% and reduced my agreed hull value by 15K (something that I didn't think was possible without my input). A call to them produced no reasonable explanation or change, only an offer to remove coverage items to reduce the premium costs. I filed a complaint with BoatUS Consumer Affairs with no response to date. I have worked with the consumer affairs division in the past and had very good experiences, but I think that they are not willing to "eat one of their own". I am in the process of applying to other insurance companies and would appreciate any good recommendations or companies to avoid. I am primarily a US east coast sailor.

[CoryW]

If you complete the web form found at highseaslowrates.com and I'll see what I can do. But so you understand, the US boat insurance markets are tough right now do to catastrophic hurricane losses in 2017. Reinsurance cost have gone way up.

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by ri4sail

I am in the process of applying to other insurance companies and would appreciate any good recommendations or companies to avoid. I am primarily a US east coast sailor.

https://maritimeinsuranceinternation...ons/mystic-ct/

Multi-line agent which specializes in marine insurance. They will shop around for variety of options for you.

[Boatguy30]

A nearby boat had a small generator fire due to non marine grade fuel hoses chafing in the soundshield of a 20 y/o generator. insurance is apparently planning to pay out around 20k to replace that 20 y/o generator.
Same as the guy in the other thread with the 30 y/o failed Chinese chainplates.
Must be a lot of suckers that never make a claim to covers others negligence

Not sure it’s just the “hurricane losses”

[dannc]

Originally Posted by ri4sail

I too, just received a renewal policy from BoatUS/Geico that makes no sense. I have been with them for 30+ years with 2 claims, one for 2k after a lightening strike (15 years ago) and one for $1300 for a hull scrape to my own boat. They raised my premium 42% and reduced my agreed hull value by 15K (something that I didn't think was possible without my input). A call to them produced no reasonable explanation or change, only an offer to remove coverage items to reduce the premium costs. I filed a complaint with BoatUS Consumer Affairs with no response to date. I have worked with the consumer affairs division in the past and had very good experiences, but I think that they are not willing to "eat one of their own". I am in the process of applying to other insurance companies and would appreciate any good recommendations or companies to avoid. I am primarily a US east coast sailor.

You can also talk to your state's insurance department/commission.

Years ago, NC had some bad hurricanes that impacted INLAND areas very badly. A coworker had his insurance policy canceled for no reason. He had no claims at all and was not living in a flood zone. I suggested he talk to the NC insurance commission, he did and his insurance was restored. I think he we shopping for a new insurance company though.

Good luck on dealing with the insurance company. Been There Done That and got the shaft big time. Nationwide is NOT on your side but they sure went up my backside. Multiple people in the company lied over and over again to me. When I filed a complaint through THEIR process, the agent said that using THEIR process, hurt me. WTF

Later,
Dan