May I Sail to Cuba ?

[AnchorageGuy]

Originally Posted by zeehag

just dont spend money there lol. you CAN sail there--has been done recently and without problem by a few friends of mine.

Those regulations were changed long ago and it is not legal for Americans to travel to Cuba without a permit from the State Department, and they don't issue permits very often. Exceptions are currently available for Cuban-Americans under certain circumstances. Chuck

[zeehag]

the folks i know who sailed there RECENTLY didnt obtain permits-- they just SAILED there... paperwork was arranged and all was good.

[AnchorageGuy]

Originally Posted by zeehag

the folks i know who sailed there RECENTLY didnt obtain permits-- they just SAILED there... paperwork was arranged and all was good.

Not sure what "paperwork was arranged" but the rules have not changed and if they are American citizens they must first apply for a license from the State Department, which means filling out the proper forms and waiting for permission. That information can be found here. Currently the State Department is not issuing a license for travel unless it meets very strict standards and just wanting to sail to Cuba does not fall under those standards. I have been following this subject for some time and trying to stay on top of the most current information. I have also been in close contact with Commodore Escrich at the Havana Yacht Club. You can not fill out a form and just go legally there at this time. It is important that any US citizen understand the current regulation to avoid falling foul of our government upon return to the US. Chuck

[zeehag]

the folks i know who sailed there did NOT apply for permits. nor did they go to havana yacht club. nor did they go there directly from usa. nor were they harrassed on return or anywhere else for that matter.

[capn_billl]

Originally Posted by zeehag

the folks i know who sailed there did NOT apply for permits. nor did they go to havana yacht club. nor did they go there directly from usa. nor were they harrassed on return or anywhere else for that matter.

That is kinda the key point right there.

[capn_billl]

Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy

I just leave the whole thing alone. Trying to make the U.S.'s continued opposition to travelling to Cuba make sense is like trying to talk to fundies about Planned Parenthood or to New York Jews about something vaguely critical about Israel...it's practically a point of religion and is not a discussion that will have any affect on how the world works.

Having said that, I generally agree to abide by the laws of the countries in whose waters I travel. Why piss off the locals? On the other hand, if something is illegal for the natives, and is NOT illegal for me, and is for personal consumption, I consider it a weak pretext for tossing your boat and having guys in uniforms steal your supplies and perhaps even your boat.

It's easier for me to just take my wallet stuffed with $1.05 U.S. dollars and custom elsewhere until, in the words of Ben Franklin, "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" come to their senses regarding my Cohibas, Havana Harbour charts and cinco anos rum (hint: they are not parts of a plot to overthrow the Republic).
Funnily, I have had many Americans privately concur with me about the craziness and hypocrisy involving Cuba, but they are reluctant to speak out...seems a little undemocratic to me to be intimidated into denying oneself free speech, but who am I to challenge the world's greatest democracy?

This USED to be a free country.

[zeehag]

usa was never a democracy--hs always been a republic-- of the landholder(now corporation) for the,,,, and of the.... was nevermeant to be equality--there WERE certain groups disapproved of that were afeared by patriotic daddies and not allowed to vote-- females, folks of color,sharecroppers(renters), et alii, so ,, i donot know what nation of which ye speak----LOL is a republic on the skids....

[kevingy]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

Actually, the reason is pretty simple. There is a rather large population of ex-Cubans living in South Florida. They are adamantly anti-Castro. They do NOT want relations to be normalized so long as Castro (ANY Castro) is still in power.

They are also very politically active, they vote, and they work hard to influence how others vote. They have the very real potential to swing the vote in Florida, which tends to be split by narrow margins (see the 2000 elections).

Florida has 29 electoral college votes. Only California and Texas have more. As such, the vote in Florida can swing the national vote (again, see the 2000 election).

Bah! Are you seriously trying to tell me that the entire country does whatever the Cubans living in south Florida want? The 2000 elections didn't hinge on the Cuban vote simply by virtue of them being Cuban. The reason Florida was pivotal in the 2000 election was because the entire country was split, not being able to decide which of the candidates was the best of two evils, and there was an opening for the candidates' lawyers to swing the vote deciding the leader of the free world one way or another. Florida would have been a non-issue if the rest of the country wasn't also undecided. Florida's 29 electoral votes are meaningless if the rest of the country votes against those 29. At the end of the day, it may have come down to the Cuban vote, but that was an effect rather than a cause.

I live in central Florida and am active in local politics. In my time, the Cuban minority has never had any influence. Of course, the board of county commissioners doesn't have much say on the topic of relations with Cuba.

Originally Posted by denverd0n

Like it or not, this gives the Cuban community in South Florida an unusually large influence in national politics. Add in the fact that the United States would benefit relatively little by normalized relations with Cuba and you end up with the situation where few, if any, politicians are willing to disrupt the status quo.

I will agree that the Cuban community has some influence in politics, even at a national level, but to say that this minority is the reason the US hasn't normalized relations is, in my opinion, folly. An Oregon congressman doesn't give a moose turd what the Cubans in south Florida think. If Oregon could benefit significantly from normalizing relations with Cuba, someone there would push for it despite the Cuban-American voice.

I think you have hit the nail on the head with "few, if any, politicians are willing to disrupt the status quo." In my opinion, at this point in time, this is the most significant barrier to normalized relations with Cuba.

[kevingy]

Originally Posted by zeehag

the folks i know who sailed there did NOT apply for permits. nor did they go to havana yacht club. nor did they go there directly from usa. nor were they harrassed on return or anywhere else for that matter.

Just because one doesn't get caught doesn't make it legal. It's up to each individual to decide whether they will knowingly risk breaking the law, and if they do break the law and get caught, if they are able and willing to face the penalty for doing so. Most of the time, in making this decision, there is a comparison of the risk and reward. One who is a US citizen must decide they will risk a penalty of up to $100,000 per violation to visit Cuba. If would caution you, if your intent is to express that there is little or no risk.

Personally, I wouldn't risk it. There are lots of other places to visit and comply with the laws of my country. Some people don't like to be so complicit.

[goboatingnow]

Must try to visit Cuba before the US let's all you Americans visit. !! Friends just back from there had a great time. The buildings may be falling down it seems but the people are great.

Dave

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

This USED to be a free country.

For much of my life, Americans have told me they live in the best country in the world, the most free, the lamp unto the darkness of democracy and so on in the "cold, dead hands" tone of voice I associate with the dead guy who played Moses.

Usually these proclamations were asserted in the context that I lived in "Soviet Canuckistan", a workers' paradise where the government taxed and spent when they weren't denying me basic freedoms like the right to shop for a doctor, flip houses in a free market, or carry a loaded gun to a school or shopping mall.

That's slacked off considerably in the last few years, and as we poor deluded pinko Canucks outlive Americans by four years on average, I expect to live long enough to see it slack off further.

My biggest fear is that you'll decide to export your brand of democracy northward. I'm getting a little past it to go all "Red Dawn" in the face of so much liberty, but a pinko's gotta do what a pinko's gotta do, right?

This pinko's going to sail to Cuba, but mainly for the music and rum, not so much for the Commie hero worship. Also, the absence of modern distractions in Cuba has, I am told, made them friendly and engaged to foreigners, not slack-jawed, unfit, glazed-eyed gamers and texters, like our own, freedom-stuffed youth.

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by kevingy

Bah! Are you seriously trying to tell me that the entire country does whatever the Cubans living in south Florida want?

No, of course not. The real point here is that no one stands to make a lot of money by opening up Cuba, and the South Florida Cubans don't want it opened up, and so it is easier for the politicians to just leave things as they are.

If they open things up they get a group with a certain amount of political clout angry at them. What would they get in return? Big donations from corporations clamoring to do business in Cuba? No. Cuba's not a big enough market for any major corporation to care so much about it that they would be willing to make serious campaign donations in order to do business there. The politicians would get practically nothing in return. (Other than the satisfaction of knowing that they did the right thing, which counts for less-than-nothing with most politicians.)

So things stay as they are. Right now the politicians see this as an issue that could cost them much, but cannot benefit them greatly. They won't make changes until it gets to where they see this as an issue that cannot cost them much, or is likely to benefit them greatly. That time may come soon as some of the older, more rigid, and most politically-active Cuban leaders down in Miami die off.

[zeehag]

there would be more interesting answers if the folks who have sailed to cuba RECENTLY would come in and share their experiences. however, as with other gorgeous sailing spots, why should they?? ye make sailing sound like something one CANNOT do--LOL we CAN DO ANYTHING WE WANT TO DO -- rules be damned-- there are legal ways around most all rules ever made--- open eyes and look.

[Capt Phil]

S/V Alchemy... your post cracked me up LMAO! My kids are still Canadians and when in college a few years ago travelled to Cuba regularly on vacation... cheap, fun and safe. Interestingly, they always converted their 'loonies' (Canadian $ for the uninformed) into US$ which the Cubans loved to get their hands on. Never been there myself but hear it is a delightful country, great folks and clean, well appointed marinas.
When I moved to the US years ago, it was the land of opportunity and a great business environment. At the risk of feeling the wrath of our ever present Moderator and avoiding straying into politics, let's say the blush has gone off the rose down here as it has elsewhere.
My kids told me that the charter flights they took from Canada to Cuba had at least 1/3 US citzens aboard so Gord's observation of 'workarounds' have been in place for some time... cheers, Capt Phil (Canuck fan)

[S/V Alchemy]

Know how to spot an American in Havana? Shout "Homeland Security!" and see who drops his/her cigar and Maple Leaf lapel pin...

Seriously, I'm sure both the Cubans and the Americans would be happier if the ongoing state of official enmity did not persist. It's probably done more than anything else to keep the current Cuban regime in power.

Does anyone know if an American crew on a Canadian boat that didn't touch an American port (say, Halifax-Bermuda-BVIs-Cuba) would likely get busted just for arriving in Havana?

I don't actually know how that would work.