Entering north Man-o-war channel at night

[dougweibel]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

We are currently in the Abacos. With your timeline, here’s a plan that I think is feasible:

Leave in SE direction, going straight across the gulf stream.

As soon as you’re through, turn south, making sure to stay east of the gulf stream and ride the counter currents that are often there.

Enter the Little Bahama Bank at Matanilla shoal, then proceed to Great Sale Cay to anchor and let the wind run out. Once you are on the bank, things are easy on your boat and Great Sale has good protection. Radar works goodif you would arrive in the dark.

This is exactly what I was thinking. I have gone out Matanilla in strong NE winds. Strong swell from the east hits at an oblique angle. Great Sale is a good place to rest and if necessary wait for improving weather.

[MicHughV]

Back in the day, they used to bring a cruise ship in on the east side of Whale Cay, so that area has been dredged to around 40' or so, The cruise ship would come in and go left..ie..to port and anchor in a turning basin there.
So there is a deep water passage there. I have come in here direct from Bermuda in some serious weather and did ok. It will be wild and rolly off course and if you can manage to hang on for the 45 minutes or so as you transit this body of water you can make it.
The only danger is the presence of a partially submerged reef just north of the east side passage....it has a name, but it slips my mind. Check your charts

I wouldn't dream of doing this entrance at night. but doable during the day. There is a new marina once you turn left.

As others have suggested the Mantilla Shoal area offers a wide deep entrance with no surprises.

There is north wind....and there is north wind..I'd be more concerned about a nor-easter blowing against the Gulf Stream, which will cause some seriously short and steep waves.
Approaching Whale Cay or Man o War at night with a north wind is downright crazy.
If you have to turn around or heave to, be mindful of the plethora of offshore reefs in the area.

Crossing from Charleston....or should I say...attempting to leave from Charleston under these circumstances and heading for the B'mas is....um.....dumb ! No other way I can say this as you'll be in the Gulf Stream for quite some time bashing your brains out.

The Man-o-War channel is only for the brave as there as several zig-zags to contend with. The channel is not marked, so it's all eyeball navigation, impossible to do at night.

For that matter there are little to no aids to navigation in the B'mas. If the doodoo hits the fan for you, don't expect the Coast Guard or any other rescue, to come rushing to your aid.

Do the sensible thing and head south along the coast. Several ports/inlets where you can duck into. Then leave from Ft. Pierce, WPB, etc.

[SailingHarmonie]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

Crossing from Charleston....or should I say...attempting to leave from Charleston under these circumstances and heading for the B'mas is....um.....dumb ! No other way I can say this as you'll be in the Gulf Stream for quite some time bashing your brains out.

T

But, that's not what you do from Charleston. It would be dumb to sail south in the Gulf Stream. Why would you do that????

You head east, and CROSS the Gulf Steam, make your easting, and then turn south. The Gulf Stream off SC is wider, but also significantly slower than it is off Florida. It is actually a MUCH easier crossing than it is in Florida. A longer trip in one go, but a lot easier--assuming you are not scared of ocean sailing.

DUMB would be leaving from Charleston, sailing South along the coast to Florida, THEN crossing to the Bahamas.

[Muaddib1116]

Thank you all for your knowledge and advice, I'm glad I decided to ask for your opinions before following through. Special thanks to you, Jedi, for the alternative plan. While my offshore experience is limited, I think my lack of knowledge of this part of the US and the Bahamas is my biggest problem. I fear that I'll still be racing the weather and daylight trying to follow this route.

At the risk of making another dumb decision, I've decided to head down the coast to St. Augustine and wait out this weather. I've been told by some that the crossing from there is as good or better than Charleston, and I have a friend there, that has more experience in this area, waiting for a window.

[GordMay]

Bahamas Rage:
It is not just storm wave ➛ rising bottom interference, it is also a matter of timing, to avoid tidal flow [current] opposing wind.

Tom Neale covered the subject, in some detail:
“The ins and outs of running inlets” ➥ https://www.soundingsonline.com/boat...running-inlets

Steve Dodge’s “The Cruising Guide to Abaco, Bahamas” is also very useful.
➥ https://www.nauticalmind.com/78979/c...abaco-bahamas/

[MicHughV]

The entrance at St. Augustine can also be quite wooly to say the least. As with most inlets, wind against tide can set up notorious steep waves, so arrival timing is everything.
St. Augustine does not have any jetties extending out into the ocean, instead it has very obvious shoals, easily seen, either side of the channel.
The channel is not straight either, it zig-zags. There are some channel markers there.
This is another inlet I would not run at night.

Fernandina and Jacksonville, just to the north, have both deep water, well marked ship channel entrances, but both can get wooly in a wind and tide situation.

Daytona is the next south inlet after St. Augustine. It is not a ship channel. As elsewhere, wind against tide can built notorious seas.

Next comes Ft. Pierce, it has a decent, well marked inlet. Many people use Ft.P. to jump across to the B'mas via Mantilla Shoal.

After that, next decent inlet is West Palm Beach, also a popular spot for jumping across.

Crossing the B'mas Bank just south of Memory Rock has always been my go-to route. You shouldn't have any trouble with 8.5' draft there.

The 8.5' draft will give you some problems in areas and you will likely have to anchor some distance off some of the more popular spots, so be mindful of your draft wherever you go.

[MicHughV]

I should also tell you, there is beach renourishment program ongoing north of St. Aug, which means there are barges and dredge pipelines in the area to the north of the channel. The dredge pipeline are formed from large diameter steel pipe that float on or just below the surface, held up by flotation cans. Not sure how far offshore this operation is, but it is quite some distance and I'd give this area a wide swing.

[Muaddib1116]

Thank you, that's great information! It looks like I should be able to arrive at st. Augustine tomorrow afternoon in the daylight, with an incoming tide. I am definitely as careful with my draft as I can be.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Muaddib1116

Thank you, that's great information! It looks like I should be able to arrive at st. Augustine tomorrow afternoon in the daylight, with an incoming tide. I am definitely as careful with my draft as I can be.

Look us up when you arrive here in the Abacos. We’re anchored somewhere in the Manjack Cay - Crab Cay - Green Turtle Cay area. Best anchorage is between Manjack and Crab Cay. If you have a decent dinghy, you can take that into check-in at GTC, otherwise anchor there, then return.

There’s gonna be at least a week of high winds. Look carefully at the right wind angle for making Matanilla Shoal, then Great Sale Cay. From there you can always motor east a while until you can turn south again.

If you go in one leg then it’ll be 48h total with a good wind angle.

[Cheyne]

We were just in StA and found that channel to be great on depth and just stay between the markers. The greens are almost on rocks.

Cheyne

[Muaddib1116]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Look us up when you arrive here in the Abacos. We’re anchored somewhere in the Manjack Cay - Crab Cay - Green Turtle Cay area. Best anchorage is between Manjack and Crab Cay. If you have a decent dinghy, you can take that into check-in at GTC, otherwise anchor there, then return.

There’s gonna be at least a week of high winds. Look carefully at the right wind angle for making Matanilla Shoal, then Great Sale Cay. From there you can always motor east a while until you can turn south again.

If you go in one leg then it’ll be 48h total with a good wind angle.

Thank you Jedi!

[MicHughV]

Just an fyi...

The west wall of the Gulf Stream is about 70-80 miles due west of J'ville and more or less the same distance from Charleston, so cruising down the coast in a norther is not an issue, keeping relatively close to shore, say 10 miles or so.

The GS doesn't get close to land until south of Cape Canaveral, and even then hugging the shore line should keep you out of it.
Not until WPB or thereabouts does the GS come close to shore, probably within half a mile or so.

[MicHughV]

should have said " due east"....my bad..

[rupertfb]

I'll answer another aspect of your question - (as the 'weather' aspect has been addressed above) as, in a previous career, I was a Hydrograhic Specialist and Nautical Chart Expert.

CHARTING
The cut is narrow, but correctly charted for position and depths. Read all the warnings that are shown on the chart itself too.
The first time I went through was at night, and as preparation, I collated the 'best line through' across three different charting systems (that used different sounding databases, but all based on the same datum). When I arrived at a common line that was safe on all three sounding databases I plotted this back onto my Chartplotter. Lo and behold - it was within feet of the charted safe line. That felt good!
I watched the depths as I came through, and they correlated too.

Last time I came through was a month ago, at night, in a stiff NE - and I did the same as your plan; immediately anchor in Corn Bay in flat water. The holding there is good.

MY THREE_PENNY WORTH:
Don't leave the side with a plan that requires you to sail in marginal conditions. Wait, or adapt the plan.

Drop me a PM if you'd like to discuss charting further

Rupert Forester-Bennet, Delivery Skipper
(LtCdr RN retd, IHO Cat A Charge Command Hydrographic Surveyor)

[TPG]

I was just there a couple of weeks ago and saw it up close with a 15kt wind out of the NE during the day. It's a handful during the day, I would advise not running it at night.