BAHAMAS CRUISING PERMIT - PROPOSED CHANGES

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

WHY!

Why does it cost any more for two people on 60 feet, 10 foot dinghy than for the same couple on 27 feet? Bigger dock if used but that charge is to the private marina operator. There is no additional cost to the Bahamas government. Put in perspective, why should we be subsidizing shorter boats? These foot rules additionally make customs officials into cashiers and boat measures.

Turns out almost nothing in the world is priced based on "how much it costs to ..." It's priced based on supply and demand and a bunch of related factors like elasticity of demand. There's an entire field of study that researches this, it's called micro economics. Put all that together and charging more for a bigger boat not only makes perfect sense but you'd almost be committing micro econ malfeasance not to!

[Doek]

OK, I’ll climb on my soapbox for a few minutes.
I’ve been cruising the Bahamas for over a decade now, first on a Pearson 33 and now on my Valiant 40. This is what I’ve seen:
In the beginning of my Bahama travels, I was amazed at just how much of the country was sold to outsiders that then closed the entire area for people couldn't enjoy it. Entire Islands were purchased and then closed down to cruisers and even the Bahamians themselves. Crab Cay in the Exumas, Cave Cay in the Exumas, Royal Island off Eleuthera, Guana Cay in the Abacos. And the list goes on and on and on. The really sad part is that Bahamians that have lived in a certain area for generations can no longer walk, fish, swim, or even go to their own islands. Guana Cay in the Abacos is a prime example. 90% of that Island is lost to the developers and the Bahamian descendants of several generations are not even allowed to travel their own island. There are actually guards at gates to stop them. It’s a crime.
Then I saw “Protected No Take Zones” being set up all over. In the Abacos, there are at least two now (Near Man-O -War Cay, and Lynyard Cay) and of course, lets not forget the “Land and Sea Park” down in the Exumas. They always follow a typical pattern; We need to protect the environment (now we can't fish, lobster or shell), then we need to control things by putting in moorings, for a fee of course (now we lost our best anchorages), then we need to make more money by charging for anchoring or even going ashore (unbelievable), and finally they make it so expensive and difficult and dangerous to go there (arrested for fishing inside an imaginary line or anchoring without proof that you paid a fee) that they drive everyone but a few zealots away.



The result is that hundreds/thousands of square miles and numerous islands are entirely lost to the Public, Cruisers, and the Bahamians that have lived there for generations. Many who live off the land and sea, but now can't.


Then the government needed even more money so they instituted a 15% tax on everything. They were going to do so much good with the money. Of course, they already lost a few billion of the money collected. Can’t remember where they put it.


Now they are once again going after the cruisers and once again harming their own citizens by raising the fees just to come visit the country. Welcome to the Bahamas, now give me $600.00 to cruise here (in my case). What a stupid greedy decision.



It will obviously put even more nails in the coffins of the Bahamian people.


The sad thing is that the impoverished people of the Bahamas are the most hurt by these fat cats taking money, land, livelihood, and business from them. Where is their voice? Who speaks for them?


I am a relatively poor cruiser, but I spend an average of $10,000.00 a year in the Bahamas mostly with the small local business. How many more are like me? How many of them are sick of these trends and are actively looking for new cruising grounds with less fees and rules, and more freedoms.


That was why I started going to the Bahamas in the first place. If it becomes the US all over again (anchoring laws, boating laws, mooring fields, bullying police, rules, rules, rules….enough is enough), I’ll need to go somewhere else.


The Bahamas used to mean freedom. That is why I went there, and spent my money with the locals there.


It is changing and not for the better.


The more money I’m forced to give the fat cats, the less goes to the Bahamian people that deserve it. Why can't people see that?

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[Nelsons]

Great contribution, thanks for sharing your thoughts

[AA3JY]

Very interesting perspective..

Originally Posted by quackedo

OK, I’ll climb on my soapbox for a few minutes.
I’ve been cruising the Bahamas for over a decade now, first on a Pearson 33 and now on my Valiant 40. This is what I’ve seen:
In the beginning of my Bahama travels, I was amazed at just how much of the country was sold to outsiders that then closed the entire area for people couldn't enjoy it. Entire Islands were purchased and then closed down to cruisers and even the Bahamians themselves. Crab Cay in the Exumas, Cave Cay in the Exumas, Royal Island off Eleuthera, Guana Cay in the Abacos. And the list goes on and on and on. The really sad part is that Bahamians that have lived in a certain area for generations can no longer walk, fish, swim, or even go to their own islands. Guana Cay in the Abacos is a prime example. 90% of that Island is lost to the developers and the Bahamian descendants of several generations are not even allowed to travel their own island. There are actually guards at gates to stop them. It’s a crime.
Then I saw “Protected No Take Zones” being set up all over. In the Abacos, there are at least two now (Near Man-O -War Cay, and Lynyard Cay) and of course, lets not forget the “Land and Sea Park” down in the Exumas. They always follow a typical pattern; We need to protect the environment (now we can't fish, lobster or shell), then we need to control things by putting in moorings, for a fee of course (now we lost our best anchorages), then we need to make more money by charging for anchoring or even going ashore (unbelievable), and finally they make it so expensive and difficult and dangerous to go there (arrested for fishing inside an imaginary line or anchoring without proof that you paid a fee) that they drive everyone but a few zealots away.



The result is that hundreds/thousands of square miles and numerous islands are entirely lost to the Public, Cruisers, and the Bahamians that have lived there for generations. Many who live off the land and sea, but now can't.


Then the government needed even more money so they instituted a 15% tax on everything. They were going to do so much good with the money. Of course, they already lost a few billion of the money collected. Can’t remember where they put it.


Now they are once again going after the cruisers and once again harming their own citizens by raising the fees just to come visit the country. Welcome to the Bahamas, now give me $600.00 to cruise here (in my case). What a stupid greedy decision.



It will obviously put even more nails in the coffins of the Bahamian people.


The sad thing is that the impoverished people of the Bahamas are the most hurt by these fat cats taking money, land, livelihood, and business from them. Where is their voice? Who speaks for them?


I am a relatively poor cruiser, but I spend an average of $10,000.00 a year in the Bahamas mostly with the small local business. How many more are like me? How many of them are sick of these trends and are actively looking for new cruising grounds with less fees and rules, and more freedoms.


That was why I started going to the Bahamas in the first place. If it becomes the US all over again (anchoring laws, boating laws, mooring fields, bullying police, rules, rules, rules….enough is enough), I’ll need to go somewhere else.


The Bahamas used to mean freedom. That is why I went there, and spent my money with the locals there.


It is changing and not for the better.


The more money I’m forced to give the fat cats, the less goes to the Bahamian people that deserve it. Why can't people see that?

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[AA3JY]

Yes..one can purchase this very popular cruiser anchorage Cay..

https://www.privateislandsonline.com...great-sale-cay

[TigerPaws]

Originally Posted by AA3JY

Yes..one can purchase this very popular cruiser anchorage Cay..

https://www.privateislandsonline.com...great-sale-cay

I could purchase that island, but I would not have much left to do anything else.

A bit out of my budget. Oh! Well if their fees do go up I will avoid sailing that far north in November.

SeaQuest OE II

[Patrick57]

My wife and I are new to the sailing community. We purchased our boat in March 2019 and sailed from Antigua to Ft Lauderdale for upgrades and repairs. While in Florida we have sailed to Bimini 3 times to take friends and family on a short trips. We have found the people of Bimini to be very friendly and helpful. We have paid the $300 Cruising Permit twice because of the re-entry rules. We will be leaving at the end of January to sailing through the Bahamas on our way to Turks and Caicos then on to the Virgin Islands. I believe we will be required to pay the cruising permit once again since we have been out of the country for greater than 3 months. I understand you have to pay to play; however, I wish they offered more cursing permit options for sailors like us. If they do have others options (shame on me) I would surely like to know about them!

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Patrick.

I, also wish they offered more cursing permit options ...

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by Patrick57

My wife and I are new to the sailing community. We purchased our boat in March 2019 and sailed from Antigua to Ft Lauderdale for upgrades and repairs. While in Florida we have sailed to Bimini 3 times to take friends and family on a short trips. We have found the people of Bimini to be very friendly and helpful. We have paid the $300 Cruising Permit twice because of the re-entry rules. We will be leaving at the end of January to sailing through the Bahamas on our way to Turks and Caicos then on to the Virgin Islands. I believe we will be required to pay the cruising permit once again since we have been out of the country for greater than 3 months. I understand you have to pay to play; however, I wish they offered more cursing permit options for sailors like us. If they do have others options (shame on me) I would surely like to know about them!

Patrick,
Welcome to cruising and CF. We are starting our 4th season in the Caribbean. We have found that all former British colonies/holdings have a legacy of high fees and too much paperwork. Not sure I want to visit the Bahamas.

Going off topic, sorry.

The only former British exception is Dominica. Stay in Portsmouth, Prince Rupert Bay. Make friends with the boat boys there. They are nice and can arrange BBQ and tours.

Have local cash currency for entry and exit.

I don’t know your age but if you plan to go to St John, a national park pass or senior pass cuts your mooring price in half. You must use a mooring in the park. St John is really nice.

The BVI has no printable, traceable, predictable fee structure. What it will cost entering and exiting is a total mystery. We first entered with the Salty Dawgs rally in 2016. Our friends ahead of us paid €1.00. We paid $120. We have paid as much as $160. The variability bothers us but the cash going into a pocket grinds. Always ask for the longest stay permitted. You can leave early but extending is a mess. If you stay beyond a threshold period you must import your boat, good for a year but it gives you no extended entry consideration.

French Islands are totally easy. Entry places are T Shirt shops, restaurants and chandleries for the most part. Fees are zero to €5. Always leave a donation at the free places.

Trinidad, (former English) uses multiple forms in triplicate on carbon paper. Many of their procedures make no sense at all. Allow time, smile, be courteous. Wear shoes, shirt with collar, pants. Do not show up after hours or expect to pay an overtime fee. Trinidad, Chaguaramos is our annual haul out. Great tours, nice people, wonderful and affordable food.

Dutch islands have lots of rules but all is predictable. The surprise fees in St Martin Dutch side included a bridge tax from Simpson Bay to the lagoon and an anchoring fee for the lagoon or Simpson Bay. Check in and enter the lagoon on the French side or go through the Dutch side to the French lagoon and check in. We stay in Marigot Bay, France. €5

In Antigua, check in and out at Jolly Harbor. If you go Foulmouth or English harbors to deal with customs you pay a daily World Heritage Park fee.

[skipgundlach]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

...can't wait for Cuba to open their doors to the cruising yachtie....although I'm sure there will be a cruising permit fee involved there as well....
...nonetheless, given the option, I predict that a lot of folks that used to go the B'mas will head to Cuba.

Nothing gets a politician's attention quicker than his/her wallet drying up!

Re Cuba, the author of a cruising guide to Cuba, and annual visitor, Addison Chan, is a friend of mine. He's Canadian, so can legally visit Cuba.

At the Seven Seas Cruising Association annual meeting and conference just concluded in St. Augustine FL, he opined that the new marina fees (and you MUST stay at a marina in Cuba) most likely will mean that he will not return, despite his previous enthrallment with everything Cuban.

At some point, likely we budget cruisers (the megayachts won't even notice) will decide the candle's not worth the flame.

[DeltaBoy]

We are planning on going over for the winter just before Christmas and staying for 5 months. Can we pay the old fees if we enter before Jan 1?

Thanks

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, DeltaBoy.

Yes.

Updated fees are NOT effective, until effective January 1, 2020:
THEN:
Up to 34': $150 for 3 months; $300 annually
35' – 100': $300 for 3 months; $600 annually
100' – 150': $500 for 3 months; $1,000 annually
150' – 200': $800 for 3 months; $2,000 annually
Over 200': $1,000 for 3 months; $2,000 annually

[Group9]

One lost opportunity here, with all the fees on the table, was for the Bahamians to have instituted a cheaper weekend rate, that could have revived Bimini, and repaired the damage the old 150/300 fee did to the Florida weekend traffic there.

I was living in south Florida when that fee system started, and it basically killed Bimini.

Only government officials assume that doubling prices will always lead to doubling revenues.

[Safari38LH]

Originally Posted by DeltaBoy

We are planning on going over for the winter just before Christmas and staying for 5 months. Can we pay the old fees if we enter before Jan 1?

Thanks

I cleared in yesterday in Nassa. 38 ft boat. Fees were $350 customs, $60 immigration. Looks like the old fees are still being used.

[tmccaffery]

Does Bahamian Customs / Immigration accept only cash for cruising permit & other fees or will they accept other forms of payment?