Newbie in the Med concerned about crowds and prices

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

We paid less than 1000 euros to stay in excellent marinas throughout Italy, Montenegro and Croatia during a five month stay last summer. 95 percent of the time we anchored for free, no problems. Schengen... no problems. Free beautiful anchorages... no problem.

Lot's of poor internet advice regarding these issues on this forum. I'll be in the same area for six months in 2017... no problems, no high priced marinas.

Just to provide a little perspective: 1000euro, 5 months & 5% of the time (7.5 nights assuming 30days per month)....about $140USD/night.

For a 53' boat, that's about $2.60/ft/night. Not horrible but not cheap either.

Unlike in the States, we've found if you can play the seasons it can make a big difference. Peak season can be double or more the rate early or late season. So plan your marina stays outside the peak and for the same budget you can get a lot more nights in marinas.

[Jack Hattingh]

I cannot provide much input insofar Italy, Spain and France but the Turkey coastline is our favorite destination. You can choose to "touch sides" with the rich and famous in marinas of Istanbul, Fethiye, Bodrum and Marmaris or sail along the whole of the Turkish coastline where you will find an abundance of coves with safe anchorages or even with small privately owned marinas, some of which you are only required to support their bar or restaurant whilst there. Friendly reception wherever you go. Traders on small boats come alongside during the day and sell fresh fruit, vegetables, bread etc - even clothing and jewelry. You'll of course have to get essentials such as groceries, water and fuel in the bigger towns.
We never once felt threatened - saw a few jet fighters fly over now and again though.
Find Rod Heikell's "Turkish Water and Cyprus Pilot" which has some great maps and illustrations to guide you along.

[chuckr]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

That matches my understanding. They look at the prior 6 months. It can only have up to 90 days in the Schengen. They closed the leave for a day loophole.

Likely won't see an issue in a port but once you go to fly out they will likely catch you.

As others have said, that's a lot of miles to cover in a short time period at what is basically a brisk walking pace.

There are anchorages but you will have to plan them out, taking longer hops where things are expensive and longer stays where they are cheaper.

We never know how they are counting as we have been in while being out the prior 6 months and leaving then came back in with almost no days left and told we have a new 90 days - we don't argue with them or act surprised - a simple thank you sir and out the door. But we have over stayed each year and have yet to try to the 90 days goes with this or that but kept in the door until we may need it. Out passports are so full of stamps from non EU countries that it is hard to tell when we were in our out. When we got our new passports it was doable but now we can not even figure it out and we know what we are looking for.
But as said the port guys could generally care less. The problem is the airport folks. But the only time we have flown is when we left a non EU country and the only time our passport were checked was in changing planes in Frankfort and there were so many stamps they just waved us on.
The issue of 90 days will become a greater concern with those new fangled things called computers. If the EU goes to one data base that would not be good. In Albania when we checked in they did not stamp our passport and we asked why and told don't worry we know where you are. And when we checked back into Turkey they wanted to know how long we were out of the country and we began to add up days and before we could finish the guy said I have it you left on this day and came back on this day and we had our passports - he had it on the computer.

It will become more complicated if the EU uses the same data base but so far we have found that in Portugal they are very serious about it but the Italians could care less and the Greeks just waved us on with no issues. We did decided not to check out in Malta as they are ex Brit who may cross every t and dot every i and may spend the time to work through our passports so we sailed on to Lampedusa to check out and we were probably 2 months over but had checked out in Brindisi and back in at Venice after a long sail through Albania and Croatia with inland stops. And when we checked in the customs guy said welcome you now have 90days in the EU while we had done a ballpark of 29days left - we did not argue or look surprised just a simple yes sir thank you and out the door.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Just to provide a little perspective: 1000euro, 5 months & 5% of the time (7.5 nights assuming 30days per month)....about $140USD/night.

For a 53' boat, that's about $2.60/ft/night. Not horrible but not cheap either.

Unlike in the States, we've found if you can play the seasons it can make a big difference. Peak season can be double or more the rate early or late season. So plan your marina stays outside the peak and for the same budget you can get a lot more nights in marinas.

A perfect example of someone on this forum commenting on something they know nothing about. We never paid more than 100 euros per night, when we did pay 100 euros, it was just outside of Pompeii and included yacht club access for three days (total 300 euros). Another time we paid 35 euros per night to moor on the downtown warf in Brindisi for six days complete with water and power.

There, I just laid out half of our five months of mooring expenses. Rome was 65 euros per night for two nights etc.

We've never paid anywhere near what your figures show, don't have any idea of where you came up with them.

[boatman61]

With your time limits I'd skip France.. head for the Ballearics (anchorages plentiful) then across to Corsica/Sardinia, Southern Sicily and then on to Greece.. leave mainland Italy and France for the return trip when/if ever that is.

[sirfer]

We spent 6 weeks in the Balearics last summer during the peak months of July and August. Apart from the first two days of arriving in Palma, when we stayed in a marina for 2 nights for the convenience of waiting for my family to fly in and carry out a few repairs, we then anchored every night until I left on the 1st September. Yes, some anchorages were crowded, but we always found a spot and generally had no problems. We plan to do the same this summer.

[FilBrown]

For Greece I use these pilot books which have detailed information on all harbours and mooring sites. It even indicates which wind directions may cause problems in a particular mooring.
However the are around £100 a time.
http://www.eagleray.gr

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

A perfect example of someone on this forum commenting on something they know nothing about. We never paid more than 100 euros per night, when we did pay 100 euros, it was just outside of Pompeii and included yacht club access for three days (total 300 euros). Another time we paid 35 euros per night to moor on the downtown warf in Brindisi for six days complete with water and power.

There, I just laid out half of our five months of mooring expenses. Rome was 65 euros per night for two nights etc.

We've never paid anywhere near what your figures show, don't have any idea of where you came up with them.

Where did I get my figures: I used your numbers and explained the calculations.

Apparently your original quote was incorrect or at least a bit misleading. Thank you for correcting it with better data.

But if you stop in most ports peak summer, $140/night is not unusual.

[LACHLANC]

The EC/EU have an official Schengen calculator that you can enter dates into and it shows how many "Schengen" days are determined and whether you are in breach or not (& where you are in breach).

[ https://ec.europa.eu/assets/home/vis...or.htm?lang=en ]

This calculates Schengen periods based on rolling 90/180 days periods rather than for specific sequential periods [i.e. on any one day, you must not have been in the Schengen area for more than 90 of the previous 180 days]. It's worth noting that the calculator shows if you arrive on one day and leave on the following day you count that as two days in Schengen [even if you've only been in the region for, say, 8 hours].

As far as applying Schengen rules, it can be a bit of a pot luck based on who you get on departure. Some countries are generally recognised as more diligent than others but it also comes down to who you get reviewing your exit on the day. I know people who have sailed well in breach of the 90/180 day restriction without a problem and I know someone else who was 2 weeks over and this resulted in a substantial fine when exiting the Schengen zone and he was told he wouldn't be allowed back into the EU unless the fine had been paid. I believe the EU also reserves the right to fine someone and ban them from entering the EU for a period of time although I expect this would only potentially apply for long overstays (e.g. a 2 year ban).

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Where did I get my figures: I used your numbers and explained the calculations.

Apparently your original quote was incorrect or at least a bit misleading. Thank you for correcting it with better data.

But if you stop in most ports peak summer, $140/night is not unusual.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by LACHLANC

The EC/EU have an official Schengen calculator that you can enter dates into and it shows how many "Schengen" days are determined and whether you are in breach or not (& where you are in breach).

[ https://ec.europa.eu/assets/home/vis...or.htm?lang=en ]

This calculates Schengen periods based on rolling 90/180 days periods rather than for specific sequential periods [i.e. on any one day, you must not have been in the Schengen area for more than 90 of the previous 180 days]. It's worth noting that the calculator shows if you arrive on one day and leave on the following day you count that as two days in Schengen [even if you've only been in the region for, say, 8 hours].

As far as applying Schengen rules, it can be a bit of a pot luck based on who you get on departure. Some countries are generally recognised as more diligent than others but it also comes down to who you get reviewing your exit on the day. I know people who have sailed well in breach of the 90/180 day restriction without a problem and I know someone else who was 2 weeks over and this resulted in a substantial fine when exiting the Schengen zone and he was told he wouldn't be allowed back into the EU unless the fine had been paid. I believe the EU also reserves the right to fine someone and ban them from entering the EU for a period of time although I expect this would only potentially apply for long overstays (e.g. a 2 year ban).

Most people don't realize that Croatia, Turkey, Albania and Montenegro aren't a part of Schengen. A well-timed three month stay in those countries along with a few other stops can extend an EU stay indefinitely.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Most people don't realize that Croatia, Turkey, Albania and Montenegro aren't a part of Schengen. A well-timed three month stay in those countries along with a few other stops can extend an EU stay indefinitely.

I'm guessing Turkey joining is on semi-permanent hold but any updates on Croatia's joining the Schengen?

I thought it was by 2017 but haven't been following up lately.

[Lambretta]

Originally Posted by Jack Hattingh

I cannot provide much input insofar Italy, Spain and France but the Turkey coastline is our favorite destination. You can choose to "touch sides" with the rich and famous in marinas of Istanbul, Fethiye, Bodrum and Marmaris or sail along the whole of the Turkish coastline where you will find an abundance of coves with safe anchorages or even with small privately owned marinas, some of which you are only required to support their bar or restaurant whilst there. Friendly reception wherever you go. Traders on small boats come alongside during the day and sell fresh fruit, vegetables, bread etc - even clothing and jewelry. You'll of course have to get essentials such as groceries, water and fuel in the bigger towns.
We never once felt threatened - saw a few jet fighters fly over now and again though.
Find Rod Heikell's "Turkish Water and Cyprus Pilot" which has some great maps and illustrations to guide you along.

I could not agree more ...... cant get enough of the Turquoise coast
Everything there we found to be reasonable and the most amazing (and uncrowded and safe) anchorages! and enjoyed the sailing and the people and the food!

4 years ago spent 8 nights on a 78ft Ferretti (aka a gin palace ) around the Isles of Sicily and the skipper liked being in marinas - Needless to say that was expensive

[KiminAK]

Originally Posted by beirutsailor

I agree with previous contribution - far too ambitious, and a recipe for not seeing anything. Virtually no free safe anchorages in Italy, and very very expensive. So go around Sicily, either way, then free anchorage for a good rest in Syracuse. Then straight north-east to Corfu, possibly stopping at Maria di Leuca. But nix Croatia. Super crowded and super expensive. Work your way down the Ionean, slowly, and at the worst crowd time, August, find yourself in the fingers of the Peloponnese - no crowds. Then safely eastward via Crete, or island hopping (avoiding Santorini = Oxford St. at X-mas) to Turkey. There, anchorages of the best kind - long lines ashore - in abundance.

I'm sorry to hear that about Santorini. It was one of my favorite places, 40 years ago. It was so charming.

[chuckr]

We are sitting Turkey and well - it is becoming a bit more uncomfortable - we had planned to winter over here one more year before heading back to the west but depending on the vote in April we may sail down the Turkish coast and leave heading to Israel and the Red Sea - but we will see
There is potential that Turkey will change dramatically so for us it is a wait and see.