U.S. to close..

[goboatingnow]

“Free speech
Right to bear arms
Free travel”

This is a corrupt view of freedom

The most valuable freedom long fought in blood for millennia In Europe was the right to self determination, ie to vote. ( often achieved via a tortuous route )

The US has no real history of sustained political violence , Europe has 1000s of years of blood as it’s peoples excerted it’s will to self determination ( a process that isn’t over yet, in some parts of Europe )

Bearing arms isnt a “freedom “ , its a caricature of one

Freedom is the right to access education , be able to access medical care , put a house over your head , earn a living wage , and vote out a politician you don’t like ( the US seems to be struggling with that particular “ freedom “ right now )

These are “ freedoms “ these are “ rights “ countless generations of Europeans and elsewhere have fought and died for.

[goboatingnow]

By the way you do not have the right to travel as a basic freedom , see Hawaii ww2

[UFO]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The most valuable freedom long fought in blood for millennia In Europe was the right to self determination, ie to vote. ( often achieved via a tortuous route )

The right to vote is just another form of control with the current Western Governments - Our Governments all pretend to be squeaky clean but are more corrupt than some of the tin pot governments of the developing world - There you know they are corrupt and everyone can for the right price take part, yet here its just the super elites and the fractional per-centers and corporations that get to control everything. It really does not matter who you vote in as all that will happen is that you will get screwed in a different way, Political parties are are like trains running on parallel tracks, at the end they will end up close to the same location, it's an illusion to make you think that you have some power or control.



If you really believe that governments have the best interests of the general population at heart and will put them above the corporations and elites then you are sadly mislead.

[Yihang]

Originally Posted by UFO

The right to vote is just another form of control with the current Western Governments - Our Governments all pretend to be squeaky clean but are more corrupt than some of the tin pot governments of the developing world - There you know they are corrupt and everyone can for the right price take part, yet here its just the super elites and the fractional per-centers and corporations that get to control everything. It really does not matter who you vote in as all that will happen is that you will get screwed in a different way, Political parties are are like trains running on parallel tracks, at the end they will end up close to the same location, it's an illusion to make you think that you have some power or control.



If you really believe that governments have the best interests of the general population at heart and will put them above the corporations and elites then you are sadly mislead.

The CCP media is having a field day with this election. Half of the country is literally trying to prove that democracy is a fraud....Everyone in China is rooting for Trump by the way, hahaha.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by UFO

The right to vote is just another form of control with the current Western Governments - Our Governments all pretend to be squeaky clean but are more corrupt than some of the tin pot governments of the developing world - There you know they are corrupt and everyone can for the right price take part, yet here its just the super elites and the fractional per-centers and corporations that get to control everything. It really does not matter who you vote in as all that will happen is that you will get screwed in a different way, Political parties are are like trains running on parallel tracks, at the end they will end up close to the same location, it's an illusion to make you think that you have some power or control.



If you really believe that governments have the best interests of the general population at heart and will put them above the corporations and elites then you are sadly mislead.

Everybody is corrupt to some degree or other , it’s a human condition.

Governments are made up of humans

I do not after 60 years on this planet subscribe to your views on Democracy and Gov , Your views are a product of a US which has being polarised by a now thankfully deposed president , however these divisions are now so deep I believe civil conflict will be the outcome

Elsewhere governments try to balance competing interests , economic improvements and slowly and haltingly try and do the right thing for its population , some do it better then others and in many places there is no self determination and sadly some that are visibility corrupt.

I have the benefit of being all over the world over my adult years. While some nations have regressed ,( I lived in theUS and it has regressed) I see in many nations improved prosperity , better access to education , basic medical care and improved sanitation.

All in all a positive direction

As no I don’t believe bill gates is out to control us all or climate change or Covid is fake or that major reliable news outlets are making it all up or the Gov is out to “ get us all “

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Yihang

The CCP media is having a field day with this election. Half of the country is literally trying to prove that democracy is a fraud....Everyone in China is rooting for Trump by the way, hahaha.

Maybe it was maybe it wasn't - Can't trust anything in today's society of greed for power and money.


Trump's attorney: Sidney Powell says she has video and picture evidence of election fraud. Powell says, I guarantee you this [the fraud] crosses party lines.” https://omny.fm/shows/examining-poli...-sidney-powell

[UFO]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Everybody is corrupt to some degree or other , it’s a human condition.

Governments are made up of humans

I do not after 60 years on this planet subscribe to your views on Democracy and Gov , Your views are a product of a US which has being polarised by a now thankfully deposed president , however these divisions are now so deep I believe civil conflict will be the outcome

Elsewhere governments try to balance competing interests , economic improvements and slowly and haltingly try and do the right thing for its population , some do it better then others and in many places there is no self determination and sadly some that are visibility corrupt.

I have the benefit of being all over the world over my adult years. While some nations have regressed ,( I lived in theUS and it has regressed) I see in many nations improved prosperity , better access to education , basic medical care and improved sanitation.

All in all a positive direction

As no I don’t believe bill gates is out to control us all or climate change or Covid is fake or that major reliable news outlets are making it all up or the Gov is out to “ get us all “

Not being a Yank for a start and being old enough to form my own opinions and like you living in multiple countries around the world (including the USA in a younger life) the current USA parties are not what I base my views of Governments on and the way the world works.


Many countries have increased in prosperity, others not so much but the wealth distribution gap has certainly increased by a good amount in the last 50 years - The rich get richer and the poor get poorer as they say.



Do you really think its acceptable in today's Western society that you have such a wealth distribution gap? The elite few at one end and at the other a massive amount of people that live from week to week, whilst further down the ladder people who can not afford food or clothes regularly for their children and moving on to the huge amount of economically homeless.



Corporations, certain families and individuals earning billions and paying minimal to no tax, whilst parents struggle to feed, clothe or even home their children.


How is that good governance for the whole of the population? If Governments were as altruistic towards the general populace as you say this simply would not exist.



Wealth rules our governments, not an idealistic society and politicians who have such ideals will sadly get nowhere, its the way the system is setup.


Covid & Climate Change are real, but it does not mean that they are also not being used for ulterior motives and to believe that the mainstream media who are controlled by a handful of individuals are not a propaganda machine and a form of control is truly naive. They cover what they want you to read, see and hear, twist that which they can and ignore that which does not agree with their agendas - That is a simple fact - The whole coverage of the USA election shows that in spades.

[Yihang]

Kinda interesting that an aussie (murdoch) family is probably the most influential power in the world to some extent.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Jason Flare

... In what Utopia does someone taking responsibility for themselves mean that the fire dept might not put out their fire, or the highway dept might fail to plow the road in front of their house or the military fail to protect the nation.
What Utopia have you created where a person taking responsibility for themselves is so threatening to you that you call on all these others to fail to do the job they’re paid to do.

Those are some of the failings of a libertarian utopia.


People often criticize a libertarian paradise saying that the homeless people would just be left to die in the gutter.
This is of course complete bull.
The gutter would be private property, and the homeless will need to find somewhere else to die.

Q: Why did the libertarian cross the road
A: He didn’t. Because roads are paid with taxes, and taxation is theft.

[goboatingnow]

I think Hanlons Razor applies to most governments. ( to paraphrase ) “never ascribe to conspiracy what can be explained by incompetence “

I think on climate change and Covid most reasonable governments are grappling with competing interests , entrenched views , fake news and incompetence , many govs see the need for more action but the population is resistant and govs are therefore slowed



Progress is being made albeit slowly and no I don’t see some overarching conspiracy , they arnt simply that clever quite frankly

I don’t see “Individuals “ manlipulating the media ? I see people using social media and listening to nut cases and then recirculating nonsense amongst their own echo chamber groupings

All we see is then confirmation bias in boatloads followed by fear of the other , that fear being openly stoked by trump/ Boris et all etc . There is no conspiracy , it’s all in the open to be seen by anyone caring to look and think


As for the wealth gap , the poor get wealthier but the Rich have accelerated away. It’s depends how you view poverty , relative or absolute

[UFO]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I think Hanlons Razor applies to most governments. ( to paraphrase ) “never ascribe to conspiracy what can be explained by incompetence “

I think on climate change and Covid most reasonable governments are grappling with competing interests , entrenched views , fake news and incompetence , many govs see the need for more action but the population is resistant and govs are therefore slowed



Progress is being made albeit slowly and no I don’t see some overarching conspiracy , they arnt simply that clever quite frankly

I don’t see “Individuals “ manlipulating the media ? I see people using social media and listening to nut cases and then recirculating nonsense amongst their own echo chamber groupings

All we see is then confirmation bias in boatloads followed by fear of the other , that fear being openly stoked by trump/ Boris et all etc . There is no conspiracy , it’s all in the open to be seen by anyone caring to look and think


As for the wealth gap , the poor get wealthier but the Rich have accelerated away. It’s depends how you view poverty , relative or absolute

Eyes Wide Shut.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by UFO

Maybe it was maybe it wasn't - Can't trust anything in today's society of greed for power and money.


Trump's attorney: Sidney Powell says she has video and picture evidence of election fraud. Powell says, I guarantee you this [the fraud] crosses party lines.” https://omny.fm/shows/examining-poli...-sidney-powell

Your not seriously believing anything the trump
Side is saying after the past 4 years, they want to cause an armed uprising

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by UFO

Eyes Wide Shut.

Woke actually just don’t need a tin foil hat

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Yihang

Kinda interesting that an aussie (murdoch) family is probably the most influential power in the world to some extent.

Nothing new with media types being influential Hurst etc.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by SalingSue

... But in many states doesn’t even bother to check ID to vote ...

Why states like NY don’t even require a ID to vote, but you all but have to beg to even own a .22 pistol, and even then, only if it pleases the crown ...

All voters must be registered to vote (federally) in the United States.
Voters must provide proof of identity and residence when they register.
When you register to vote, or vote for the first time, in a federal election (Presidential or Congressional elections) in your state, you must prove who you are.
This is required under Federal law.

Your state may have separate ID requirements for voting by mail or in person.
If you've voted in New York before, registered in person, or provided ID at the time of registration, you don't need to show ID to vote.
In New York, officials compare voters’ physical appearances to descriptions included in their voter records.
About 20 US states have developed photo ID laws, requiring voters to show a piece of identification with a photo, in order to obtain a ballot at the polling station. These laws have been struck down, by the courts, in at least three states: Arkansas, North Carolina and Pennsylvania.