Northern Europe during Pandemic -- Summers 2020 & 2021 & onwards

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Aren't word games fun.... so we have emergency and we have provisional and we have full........
I think provisional is closer to full than it is to emergency....

Oh well... Hunt does look rather stressed of late.....

Meanwhile a question someone may have the answer for...
What percentage of vaccines administered in the UK have been AZ and what problems have they had with it?

Three vaccines have been approved and are being administered in the UK - AstraZeneca's, Pfizer Biotech's, and Moderna's.

As of March 10, 2021, 23.5 million persons in the UK have received their first of two inoculations, 1.35 million have received both doses.

Dr Phil Bryan, MHRA vaccines safety lead in the UK, said more than 11 million doses of the Covid-19 AstraZeneca vaccine have now been administered across the UK with no issues.
"Reports of blood clots received so far are not greater than the number that would have occurred naturally in the vaccinated population," he added.

Professor Anthony Harnden, deputy chairman of the UK's Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation, said there was “no demonstrable difference” in the number of blood clots seen between the general population and the 11 million who have so far received the jab. "I spent all yesterday in our practice vaccinating with the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine – I would not be immunising my own patients unless I felt it was safe." "One ought to also remember that Covid causes blood clots. So, the risks of not having the Covid vaccination far outweigh the risks from the vaccinations."

The World Health Organisation (WHO) have echoed this stance.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Dr Phil Bryan, MHRA vaccines safety lead in the UK, said more than 11 million doses of the Covid-19 AstraZeneca vaccine have now been administered across the UK with no issues.
.

Well that's a bit of a Porky Pie


"Part of our monitoring role includes reviewing reports of suspected side effects. Any member of the public or health professional can submit suspected side effects through the Yellow Card scheme"


"As of 7 March 2021, for the UK, 35,325 Yellow Cards have been reported for the Pfizer/BioNTech, 61,304 have been reported for the Oxford University/AstraZeneca vaccine, and 281 have been reported where the brand of the vaccine was not specified.
For both vaccines the overall reporting rate is around 3 to 6 Yellow Cards per 1,000 doses administered."


Unlike the States that report the amount of deaths the UK appears to hide this figure amongst all the other issues, but if you look at a lot of the local papers and non MSM sites there are hundreds of deaths in there as well - Obviously none of them have anything to do with the vaccine


https://metro.co.uk/2021/01/05/dad-d...cine-13848457/

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Three vaccines have been approved and are being administered in the UK - AstraZeneca's, Pfizer Biotech's, and Moderna's.

As of March 10, 2021, 23.5 million persons in the UK have received their first of two inoculations, 1.35 million have received both doses.

Dr Phil Bryan, MHRA vaccines safety lead in the UK, said more than 11 million doses of the Covid-19 AstraZeneca vaccine have now been administered across the UK with no issues.
"Reports of blood clots received so far are not greater than the number that would have occurred naturally in the vaccinated population," he added.

Professor Anthony Harnden, deputy chairman of the UK's Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation, said there was “no demonstrable difference” in the number of blood clots seen between the general population and the 11 million who have so far received the jab. "I spent all yesterday in our practice vaccinating with the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine – I would not be immunising my own patients unless I felt it was safe." "One ought to also remember that Covid causes blood clots. So, the risks of not having the Covid vaccination far outweigh the risks from the vaccinations."

The World Health Organisation (WHO) have echoed this stance.

You may have missed my last post. The information you have presented from Britain’s MHRA is by no means complete. A half truth without presenting the full picture, is in my opinion the same as a “porky”, as UFO stated.

There have been 5 cases of rare cerebral sinus thrombosis unusually associated with a low platelet count reported in the UK following a dose of AZ. As with Europe’s EMA, Britain’s Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) is not dismissing the possibility that this is not coincidental.

When it comes to vaccinations, it seems many of us (especially politicians) like to view or present it as a black or white situation.

Vaccines are neither completely safe or evil. They are generally lifesaving. There are also risks (some deadly) associated with them all, as there is with almost all pharmaceutical drugs, over the counter or otherwise, and they should not be taken lightly. Vaccines are vital for protecting the vulnerable, but the risks do need to be weighed carefully.

In my view, even if an association is eventually found between COVID-19 vaccines and the rare incidence of cerebral sinus thrombosis and disseminated intravascular coagulation, this is no reason to discontinue the vaccine if numbers continue to be so low. I am keeping my fingers crossed that my nonagenarian relatives in Australia will receive the vaccine within the next few weeks. Their risk of dying if they contract COVID-19 is sky high. One is in category 1a and still unvaccinated.

It does, however, reinforce the opinion that I have strongly expressed before on this thread. Mass vaccination (particularly with a new form of vaccine with zero long term track record) of those at low risk of being severely affected by this virus is unwise.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

It would be nice, but this is not the case. Blood clots have certainly been reported. The general incidence of blood clots has been found to be no higher following vaccination (in total it may actually be less), but specifically rarer types of clotting with low platelet count have also been reported in the UK, as they have in Europe, and it is these that are of concern:

“The UK has received five reports of a specific brain blood clot in people who have received the AstraZeneca coronavirus vaccine, though no causal link has been made with the jab.

The five people were men aged 19 to 59 who experienced a clot together with low blood platelet count. One of the five has since died.

The Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) said that use of the vaccine should continue while the five reports were investigated.

“The available evidence does not suggest that blood clots in veins (venous thromboembolism) are caused by Covid-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca,” the agency said.

“A further, detailed review into five UK reports of a very rare and specific type of blood clot in the cerebral veins (sinus vein thrombosis) occurring together with lowered platelets (thrombocytopenia) is ongoing.”
The MHRA stressed the events were “extremely rare” and there was a possibility they could have been caused by Covid-19 itself.

It said the cases represented a less than one in a million chance of suffering this type of clot, while the risk of dying from Covid-19 aged 40 to 49 was one in 1,000.”

https://www.breakingnews.ie/covid-va...b-1098315.html

It is thought the lower incidence in the UK may be due to a lesser proportion of the vaccines being administered to younger people compared to the EU.

The last sentence in the above quote is critical. As with all vaccines, risk vs benefit needs to be weighed carefully.

I stand corrected.. Bing let me down..

[El Pinguino]

I'm more inclined to pay heed to what is going on in the UK than over in continental Europe.
Many of the member states of the EU would appear to be 'going for gold' in the headless chicken event.....

https://www.theage.com.au/world/euro...19-p57c4t.html

[CatNewBee]

Every medicament has a package insert to inform the patient about the risks taking it and to allow him to make an educated decision and weigh the risk of the medicine towards the risk of the disease.

This seems no longer desireable, since people are pushed by society, media, who, politicians and group dynamics to ignore all the risks and take the jab for the greater hail.

This stinks. Especially for all the groups, that can easily deal with Covid19 and be totally asymptomatic. If you think you have a chance of 999 : 1 to survive the virus, and are happy with it, why take a risk of the jab? There are so many, that already had it knowingly and unknowingly and have an immune system trained to handle it - they have no benefit from the jab, but the risks.

I would prefer to take the mask away, go to the springbreak party, maybe get the virus and forget it after a hot week including the jab nonsense as a young and not vulnerable person. It is like getting your immunization along with a proper hangover.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

Every medicament has a package insert to inform the patient about the risks taking it and to allow him to make an educated decision and weigh the risk of the medicine towards the risk of the disease.

This seems no longer desireable, since people are pushed by society, media, who, politicians and group dynamics to ignore all the risks and take the jab for the greater hail.

This stinks. Especially for all the groups, that can easily deal with Covid19 and be totally asymptomatic. If you think you have a chance of 999 : 1 to survive the virus, and are happy with it, why take a risk of the jab? There are so many, that already had it knowingly and unknowingly and have an immune system trained to handle it - they have no benefit from the jab, but the risks.

I would prefer to take the mask away, go to the springbreak party, maybe get the virus and forget it after a hot week including the jab nonsense as a young and not vulnerable person. It is like getting your immunization along with a proper hangover.

I respect this point of view, but I don't agree with it.


Risks are fairly small among young people but they are not zero, and they are a couple of orders of magnitude greater than risks from the vaccine. Young people sometimes get Long COVID and sometimes even die.


But the other reason to vaccinate everyone, and not just the vulnerable, is to snuff out the pandemic and end it with herd immunity. By the numbers, the risks from the vaccine are extremely small. Now I agree that we don't know all the risks yet since we've only been vaccinating people for a few months. I think that's the risk SWL is referring to. Based on everything I know, however, it seems to me that those very small risks are worth taking, to end the pandemic, and we can't do it, if we don't vaccinate the young together with the old.


Nevertheless I do recognize and respect that there are different points of view on this.

[Wotname]

^^ Likewise we also do not know the long term effects of Covid.

It would appear the short term effects of the vaccine is safer than the illness and ATM, my guess is the vaccine long term effects will also be safer.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

. . . There have been 5 cases of rare cerebral sinus thrombosis unusually associated with a low platelet count reported in the UK following a dose of AZ. As with Europe’s EMA, Britain’s Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) is not dismissing the possibility that this is not coincidental.. . .

But pay attention to the magnitudes of the numbers.


5 cases out of 11 million vaccinations is 0.000045%. More than an order of magnitude less than your chance of dying on any given day in the UK, which is 0.0025%. That is in struck by lightning territory.

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

But pay attention to the magnitudes of the numbers.


5 cases out of 11 million vaccinations is 0.000045%. More than an order of magnitude less than your chance of dying on any given day in the UK, which is 0.0025%. That is in struck by lightning territory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIEokJ_ZxKE

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/double-trouble/

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/double-trouble/

Fact checker had no actual facts to prove is disprove anything.. Besides they couldn't count either.

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

But pay attention to the magnitudes of the numbers.
5 cases out of 11 million vaccinations is 0.000045%. More than an order of magnitude less than your chance of dying on any given day in the UK, which is 0.0025%. That is in struck by lightning territory.

Hi Dockhead
Yes, this is a very important point.

I have emphasised the low numbers already, but will repeat this, as I agree it is important:

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

“.....It said the cases represented a less than one in a million chance of suffering this type of clot, while the risk of dying from Covid-19 aged 40 to 49 was one in 1,000.”

The last sentence in the above quote is critical. As with all vaccines, risk vs benefit needs to be weighed carefully.

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

....In my view, even if an association is eventually found between COVID-19 vaccines and the rare incidence of cerebral sinus thrombosis and disseminated intravascular coagulation, this is no reason to discontinue the vaccine if numbers continue to be so low.

I am HUGELY in favour of vaccinating the vulnerable, but once Phase 1 of the UK program is completed next month, the groups that have accounted for 99% of deaths will be covered.

The reported death toll currently stands at 2.7 million people worldwide. Ignoring immunity acquired through contracting the disease, if by covering, say 90% of these deaths via vaccination, this brings this figure down to under 300,000 worldwide. Many of these may have died anyway during the course of the year (figures for excess deaths during this pandemic are certainly indicating this).

To put this in perspective:
Lower respiratory infections in total made up nearly 3 million deaths in 2019.

These are the rough worldwide figures for yearly deaths in 2019 from communicable diseases:
Tuberculosis: 1.3 million
HIV/AIDS: 1 million
Malaria: 400,000
Hepatitis C: 400,000

Nor should we ignore the premature deaths from obesity, most of which are preventable. WHO estimate this at 2.8 million. Why are we not focussing on these?

Once the vulnerable are vaccinated, why proceed with highly experimental mass vaccination on a worldwide scale of “young” people who are at low risk (extremely low for some age groups) with new forms of vaccine previously never approved for human use and trialled for a very short period of only months?

Herd immunity? Eradication? It is purely guesswork (and in my opinion very unlikely) that this is feasible for a coronavirus that easily mutates. As for risks of long COVID, are there not other more pressing worldwide health concerns to worry about?

In my view mass vaccination of the “young” who are at extremely low risk of serious illness is a huge experiment that could turn out disastrously. I can only hope my concerns are totally unfounded, as some countries seem hell bent on this.

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Hi Dockhead
Yes, this is a very important point.

I have emphasised the low numbers already, but will repeat this, as I agree it is important:


I am HUGELY in favour of vaccinating the vulnerable, but once Phase 1 of the UK program is completed next month, the groups that have accounted for 99% of deaths will be covered.

The reported death toll currently stands at 2.7 million people worldwide. Ignoring immunity acquired through contracting the disease, if by covering, say 90% of these deaths via vaccination, this brings this figure down to under 300,000 worldwide. Many of these may have died anyway during the course of the year (figures for excess deaths during this pandemic are certainly indicating this).

To put this in perspective:
Lower respiratory infections in total made up nearly 3 million deaths in 2019.

These are the rough worldwide figures for yearly deaths in 2019 from communicable diseases:
Tuberculosis: 1.3 million
HIV/AIDS: 1 million
Malaria: 400,000
Hepatitis C: 400,000

Nor should we ignore the premature deaths from obesity, most of which are preventable. WHO estimate this at 2.8 million. Why are we not focussing on these?

Once the vulnerable are vaccinated, why proceed with highly experimental mass vaccination on a worldwide scale of “young” people who are at low risk (extremely low for some age groups) with new forms of vaccine previously never approved for human use and trialled for a very short period of only months?

Herd immunity? Eradication? It is purely guesswork (and in my opinion very unlikely) that this is feasible for a coronavirus that easily mutates. As for risks of long COVID, are there not other more pressing worldwide health concerns to worry about?

In my view mass vaccination of the “young” who are at extremely low risk of serious illness is a huge experiment that could turn out disastrously. I can only hope my concerns are totally unfounded, as some countries seem hell bent on this.

Even if the mass vaccinations continue there's no reason to continue travel restrictions or other measures when the vulnerabels have had theirs.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I respect this point of view, but I don't agree with it.


Risks are fairly small among young people but they are not zero, and they are a couple of orders of magnitude greater than risks from the vaccine. Young people sometimes get Long COVID and sometimes even die.


But the other reason to vaccinate everyone, and not just the vulnerable, is to snuff out the pandemic and end it with herd immunity. By the numbers, the risks from the vaccine are extremely small. Now I agree that we don't know all the risks yet since we've only been vaccinating people for a few months. I think that's the risk SWL is referring to. Based on everything I know, however, it seems to me that those very small risks are worth taking, to end the pandemic, and we can't do it, if we don't vaccinate the young together with the old.

Fairly small risk for young people? - Please show me the long term studies and even short term data which actually includes the deaths for the young age groups? There have been plenty of deaths world wide associated with the vaccine - These are just simply not reported in the MSM and are hidden amongst other issues in many reporting systems.



If you think the vaccine will snuff out covid then you obviously live on a different planet to me and the risks for young people far outweigh the risk of the illness unless you have underlying issues.


Jeeze, even long term government/official studies of normal vaccinations have not been done in regards to auto immune and chronic illness issues and they certainly will NOT be done for Covid vaccines - Too much liability there for sure, so it really is beyond me why members of the general populace are pushing to vaccinate the planet of all ages without any understanding of the long term risks involved just to save a VERY small minority of our planetary population that will die from covid.


Whats wrong with letting those that want/need a vaccine to get it and those that do not want/need to make their own decision - Is the vaccine so poor that once you get it you are still not protected? Wear masks, social distance, don't allow even 2 dose vaccinated people (including yourself) into your home unless its a bubble and so on - This is happening still in the UK - What a load of croc.