Australia becoming a safe haven for Pacific cruisers.

[ausnp84]

Originally Posted by DirtyPigeon

.. when one of our police acts out of line the citizens toss them to the wolves, which is why I don’t understand why people are so accepting of the very heavy handed government over in Australia.

There was also the man who was locked up in a hotel for “quarantine”, tested negative for Covid, left the hotel and fell victim to a man hunt!

Lots of other people who have had their boats stranded there for a indefinite amount of time, some of them liveaboards

What would the appeal of setting course for Australia in this climate be? Shy of having something break and it being the closest port, with the recent activity why would one chose Australia? Serious question.

Heavy handed? You’re kidding right? You’ve got a delinquent resisting arrest and the police officer has one hand on her collar, and the other pushing into her cheek. That’s not choking - that’s stopping somone spitting in your face... when she’s lashing out, kicking and swearing at police officers (regardless of what she’s claiming).

Don’t even get me started on the d*ckheads leaving hotel “quarantine” (why did that necessitate “ “ by the way??) before they’re meant to. The guidelines are in place for everyone’s safety - if you leave early, expect the police to go out looking for you.

Your posts just smack of the pot calling the kettle black... hundreds of riots and protests in the US after decades of police brutality against minorities, and you’re saying Australia’s a dangerous place to visit / got heavy handed police tactics based on one video? Give me a break. Australia’s a fantastic country, vibrant, cruiser friendly and out of the cyclone belt. You’d be mad not to visit if you were in the area.

N

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by ausnp84

It’s an impossible situation. Opening the country for cruisers while not allowing people to fly into the country to visit sick relatives? It just won’t fly with the general populace.
............

N

Opening for one group but not another?
I guess money talks..... the first 300 are a 'trial'
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/hundreds...-pilot-program
Meanwhile, down the road...
https://www.smh.com.au/national/vict...20-p55npf.html

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by ausnp84

Heavy handed? You’re kidding right? You’ve got a delinquent resisting arrest and the police officer has one hand on her collar, and the other pushing into her cheek. That’s not choking - that’s stopping somone spitting in your face... when she’s lashing out, kicking and swearing at police officers (regardless of what she’s claiming).....
N

For DP, That vid was filmed by the boyfriend... the two of them trying to make some political point about mask wearing.
The full story ... woman asked by police why not wearing a mask as required... goes ape.. restrained... taken down to the station.... where lo and behold she decides to produce a piece of paper from her doctor exempting her from wearing a mask....
As I say a political stunt... and no she wasn't being chocked or strangled... he had her by the scruff of the neck..

So, DP, you won't be coming to Australia? Oh dear, so sad, too bad.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4uivPpzCGo

[DirtyPigeon]

Originally Posted by ausnp84

Heavy handed? You’re kidding right? You’ve got a delinquent resisting arrest and the police officer has one hand on her collar, and the other pushing into her cheek. That’s not choking - that’s stopping somone spitting in your face... when she’s lashing out, kicking and swearing at police officers (regardless of what she’s claiming).

Don’t even get me started on the d*ckheads leaving hotel “quarantine” (why did that necessitate “ “ by the way??) before they’re meant to. The guidelines are in place for everyone’s safety - if you leave early, expect the police to go out looking for you.

Your posts just smack of the pot calling the kettle black... hundreds of riots and protests in the US after decades of police brutality against minorities, and you’re saying Australia’s a dangerous place to visit / got heavy handed police tactics based on one video? Give me a break. Australia’s a fantastic country, vibrant, cruiser friendly and out of the cyclone belt. You’d be mad not to visit if you were in the area.

N

The American police in question were put in jail.

Has the officer in the video been taken into custody yet?

When you wrap your hands around a strangers neck, they will fight you, any living creature will, if that officer were to try to strangle a brain dead person they would also start to toss their arms around, a dog would try to bite you, fish will flop around when taken out of water, it’s natural for living things to resist being strangled.

More concerning than the male officer strangling the woman, is the very accepting attitude of the Australians of those actions.

“ safe haven
noun [ C usually singular ]
US /ˌseɪf ˈheɪ.vən/ UK /ˌseɪf ˈheɪ.vən/

a place where you are protected from harm or danger:”

I just don’t think Australia meets the definition right now.

Fiji appears to be a much safer haven in that corner of the world

[ausnp84]

Originally Posted by DirtyPigeon

The American police in question were put in jail.

Has the officer in the video been taken into custody yet?

When you wrap your hands around a strangers neck, they will fight you, any living creature will, if that officer were to try to strangle a brain dead person they would also start to toss their arms around, a dog would try to bite you, fish will flop around when taken out of water, it’s natural for living things to resist being strangled.

More concerning than the male officer strangling the woman, is the very accepting attitude of the Australians of those actions.

You’ve watched the video, right? The same video where his hands AREN’T around her neck, rather one is grabbing her collar and the other is gripping her cheek to twist her head.

I’m out on this one. The officer acted reasonably and you’re set in your opinion, and my Sunday night has better things to do.

N

[ausnp84]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Opening for one group but not another?
I guess money talks..... the first 300 are a 'trial'
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/hundreds...-pilot-program
Meanwhile, down the road...
https://www.smh.com.au/national/vict...20-p55npf.html

Yeh but hang on. The economy needs to restart so they’re running a limited pilot programme to bring in selected international students (don’t forget the SA economy benefits massively from those students). That’s very different to opening the border with the state that seems to be in Covid freefall.

One is controlled, the other is an open road where people come and go (literally). Bit of a difference...

N

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by GILow

Sorry, I thought everyone knew that one. But bad news, it has its origins as far back as 1980, at least according to Wikipedia.

I wasnt texting back then[emoji16]

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

How thick is the irony...I believe you missed the sarcasm.

As far as the original comment:
- If Australia chooses to let them in, no issues as long as it's their choice.
- If cruisers start demanding it on moral or legal grounds and is pressuring Australia, that's a different ballgame. Travel restrictions started around 6 months ago. Maybe not fun but plenty of time to either find a place to lay up the boat and fly home or plot a course directly home for 99% of cruisers.

As mentioned earlier theres more boats than storage options in the Pacific, keep in mind most Pacific countries are closed. Also keep in mind there were many cruisers underway that had left Panama and Mexico prior to this outbreak, also many assumed (wrongly) that this wasn't going on for a year or more.
Many boats are peoples full time homes, let's say they could store the boats, where do they live?

So, your time to plan suggestion doesn't hold water with me, how do you plan in a world that is so uncertain, changing so rapidly and will most likely keep changing?

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Since I don't know much about your hemisphere, I was going to ask for a bit of a backgrounder on the problem... but that link covered the issue well.

It does seem like a reasonable request (and a win-win business opportunity) that carries little risk. Is there a suitable coastal point that could serve as a landing point, that could be set up with customs, testing and quarantine facilities, so that arriving yachts are vetted and confirmed safe, before being allowed to travel on to other Australian ports?

There could also be some way to drop and store the boat in Australia, then the crew flies home.

The right town might be willing to step up to serve this function, because of the business potential.

Hi mate, to be honest I haven't thought through the logistics, ie. the answers to your questions. Keep in mind many of those boats would of ended up in Australia anyway, it's part of the natural migration, new Zealand of course as well.

With a little will solutions like quarantine ports could be found. Also as mentioned theres a quarantine done at sea, Fiji to Australia is 10 days or more at sea for most boats, approx 1,500nm depending on where you land.

I appreciate that you thought through the situation, its frustrating that many wont, the "if you let them in then you have to let everyone in approach" is just lazy.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by DirtyPigeon

I remember that, according to your own link

“On March 20, 2018, Noor was charged with second-degree manslaughter and third-degree murder. Prosecutors later upgraded the charges against Noor to second-degree intentional murder. In April 2019, Noor was convicted of third-degree murder and manslaughter, but acquitted of intentional second-degree murder. In June 2019, Noor was sentenced to 12.5 years in prison. Damond's family brought a civil lawsuit against the City of Minneapolis alleging violation of Damond's civil rights, which the city settled for $US20 million”


That type of behavior is NOT tolerated, the ex officer is in jail, where I am sure he is being loved tenderly, plus a civil suit was settled for $20,000,000.
NO ONE I heard of tried to defend the actions or Noor, or in the George strangling case, when one of our police acts out of line the citizens toss them to the wolves, which is why I don’t understand why people are so accepting of the very heavy handed government over in Australia.

There was also the man who was locked up in a hotel for “quarantine”, tested negative for Covid, left the hotel and fell victim to a man hunt!

Lots of other people who have had their boats stranded there for a indefinite amount of time, some of them liveaboards

With the other options like Fiji I just don’t get why one would set course for Australia right now?
Leave your boat, fly home for whatever reason and trust them to let you back in? That’s a historic roll of the dice.

What would the appeal of setting course for Australia in this climate be? Shy of having something break and it being the closest port, with the recent activity why would one chose Australia? Serious question.

Australia is the large country in the area, it has very good resources and gives a safe haven for those that prefer not to be in a cyclone area. Also as mentioned, Fiji may not have enough room up the mangroves etc to shelter all the the boats when a cyclone hits, they expect more boats than normal, they certainly dont have the yard space to store the boats, neither does French Polynesia, no other island nations are open.

Another point, IF a country like Fiji had a big virus outbreak the medical system couldnt deal with it, its nothing like Australia even when you take population into account.

Insurance companies wont cover most boats if owners choose to leave them in a cyclone area.

Theres many reasons I believe Australia is in a unique position to lead when it comes to this small group of people, they can do this without risking Australian health and at no cost, in fact we can economically benefit.

We need to step up and lose our us and them approach, I'm not suggesting we be reckless and endanger Australians health.

Regarding your view of Australia, your just wrong and watch the wrong tv channels, I've travelled extensively and I can ensure you many in the world would love to live in Australia.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Opening for one group but not another?
I guess money talks..... the first 300 are a 'trial'
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/hundreds...-pilot-program
Meanwhile, down the road...
https://www.smh.com.au/national/vict...20-p55npf.html

Your point is very valid, theres my precedent.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by ausnp84

Yeh but hang on. The economy needs to restart so they’re running a limited pilot programme to bring in selected international students (don’t forget the SA economy benefits massively from those students). That’s very different to opening the border with the state that seems to be in Covid freefall.

One is controlled, the other is an open road where people come and go (literally). Bit of a difference...

N

Ok, so let's let cruisers in for their money? Let's make it a economic decision just like we did with the students...less risk than students traveling through airports etc and coming through countries that have had major virus outbreaks.

[DirtyPigeon]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Australia is the large country in the area, it has very good resources and gives a safe haven for those that prefer not to be in a cyclone area. Also as mentioned, Fiji may not have enough room up the mangroves etc to shelter all the the boats when a cyclone hits, they expect more boats than normal, they certainly dont have the yard space to store the boats, neither does French Polynesia, no other island nations are open.

Another point, IF a country like Fiji had a big virus outbreak the medical system couldnt deal with it, its nothing like Australia even when you take population into account.

Insurance companies wont cover most boats if owners choose to leave them in a cyclone area.

Theres many reasons I believe Australia is in a unique position to lead when it comes to this small group of people, they can do this without risking Australian health and at no cost, in fact we can economically benefit.

We need to step up and lose our us and them approach, I'm not suggesting we be reckless and endanger Australians health.

Regarding your view of Australia, your just wrong and watch the wrong tv channels, I've travelled extensively and I can ensure you many in the world would love to live in Australia.

I have traveled much of the globe myself, never got around to Australia somehow, until 6 months ago it was on my list, the governments reactions to this virus concerned me, however the people’s acceptance of those actions, including the attack of that woman, strike it off my list

From what I have seen very few people even require hospitalization, safety wise I think the real concerns would be

1 Weather (depends, same with if you need dry dock)
2 Access to my boat and general autonomy to carry on (Fiji)
3 Price (Fiji)

On top of that the Australians just on this topic alone who basically said “good don’t come here”.

Why would anyone pay the hypothetical 1000-1500 a week for that?

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by DirtyPigeon

I have traveled much of the globe myself, never got around to Australia somehow, until 6 months ago it was on my list, the governments reactions to this virus concerned me, however the people’s acceptance of those actions, including the attack of that woman, strike it off my list

From what I have seen very few people even require hospitalization, safety wise I think the real concerns would be

1 Weather (depends, same with if you need dry dock)
2 Access to my boat and general autonomy to carry on (Fiji)
3 Price (Fiji)

On top of that the Australians just on this topic alone who basically said “good don’t come here”.

Why would anyone pay the hypothetical 1000-1500 a week for that?

You haven't been to Australia, and obviously have no understanding of cruising in Fiji or boat storage etc BUT you have a strong opinion?.....could you possibly have no idea what you are talking about?

[DirtyPigeon]

Originally Posted by daletournier

You haven't been to Australia, and obviously have no understanding of cruising in Fiji or boat storage etc BUT you have a strong opinion?.....could you possibly have no idea what you are talking about?

Please elaborate.



I’ve spent my entire life on boats, so I know a few things about yards, finding good docks, spots to drop anchor.