Modern lithium setup for boats

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

And I’m not done with solar panels yet… I’m planning to replace our 750W array on the hardtop with another sliding 2kW array plus there’s talk about a bimini in the cockpit which I would build from solar panels…

In the end I hope to generate enough to add electric drive to our propeller shaft!

Isn’t weight an issue?

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Isn’t weight an issue?

Weight of the panels? No, but the batteries is another story that I haven’t worked out yet…

BTW… 7.7kWh solar total yesterday

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Isn’t weight an issue?

Weight probably isn't an issue on a boat as large as Jedi's, but it is a concern for many of us. In my case, the limit for how much additional solar I can add on a hard top is likely to be based on weight (as that weight will be close to the highest point on the boat).

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Weight probably isn't an issue on a boat as large as Jedi's, but it is a concern for many of us. In my case, the limit for how much additional solar I can add on a hard top is likely to be based on weight (as that weight will be close to the highest point on the boat).

Remember the context of my posts: sailboats

[dutch-barge]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

I don't see anything above 12V on the DC side in that diagram?

But I'd still be forced to split to 2 DC panels and run DC-DC converters to supply loads that are stuck at 12v and can't be switched over.

NOPE..no need for 2 Panels

We have all 24V and for the few instruments that need 12 V, like VHF , we run the 24V to the VHF and then put a small DC-DC converter( 60 W $15 Vitcron).

So when the VHF manufacturers come to their sense all we do then is plug in a 24V one

[JustMurph]

Let's skip 24V and go straight to 48V please. ��

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by dutch-barge

NOPE..no need for 2 Panels

We have all 24V and for the few instruments that need 12 V, like VHF , we run the 24V to the VHF and then put a small DC-DC converter( 60 W $15 Vitcron).

So when the VHF manufacturers come to their sense all we do then is plug in a 24V one

That method works well if you've got a pretty much clean slate or are replacing everything on the boat. But on an existing boat with enough stuff, you're likely to have more than just VHFs that need 12V input and can't readily be replaced with a 24V version (either due to availability or cost of replacement).

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by JustMurph

Let's skip 24V and go straight to 48V please. ��

The trouble is that Victron doesn’t yet have the required dc-dc converters. They just launched a new 98.5% efficiency line and I hope that gets all the combinations incl. 48V.

I do have a small 120W regular (non smart, so just power supply, no battery charge cycles) 24 to 48 converter that I’m testing to power our new Starlink and it seems to do great.

[Mal Reynolds]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

The trouble is that Victron doesn’t yet have the required dc-dc converters. They just launched a new 98.5% efficiency line and I hope that gets all the combinations incl. 48V.

I do have a small 120W regular (non smart, so just power supply, no battery charge cycles) 24 to 48 converter that I’m testing to power our new Starlink and it seems to do great.

True about Victron. Mastervolt does have some high efficiency converters for 48/24 and 48/12: https://www.mastervolt.com/products/mac-plus-serie/

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Mal Reynolds

True about Victron. Mastervolt does have some high efficiency converters for 48/24 and 48/12: https://www.mastervolt.com/products/mac-plus-serie/

Yes, this new, bidirectional unit looks really good!

https://www.mastervolt.com/products/...plus-48-12-50/

[s/v Jedi]

I have had numerous requests for the cost of such a system. While I never look at pricing when designing these systems, I got curious because people claim it costs fortunes. So here it is:

Notes:

shore power not included because you should already have that or don’t want it.

Solar not included as it’s impossible for a general setup as every boat is different.

batteries are INCLUDED, but only one 10kWh bank. This is enough for a full electric galley but I recommend a second bank for redundancy and luxury.

price for US boats is $450 higher but they get 120V as well as 240V for high power appliances like induction ranges, A/C, watermaker etc.

Pricing electrical system

$2,500.- for two 24V 200Ah batteries to be put in parallel. This provides up to 400 Amp current and more than 10kWh storage capacity.
https://www.litime.com/products/liti...00a-bms-5120wh

$2,500.- for two Victron Multiplus 3000 units to be put in parallel.
https://shop.pkys.com/24-Volt-Multip...VAC_c_877.html

$200.- for 6 double pole breakers for all Multiplus inputs/outputs
https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Syst.../dp/B000K2O0NG

$450.- for a Victron auto transformer (US boats only) that creates the 120/240V service aboard
https://shop.pkys.com/Victron-Energy...2A_p_2778.html

$100.- for a BlueSea class T fuse block with fuse
https://www.amazon.com/Blue-5502-Cla.../dp/B00Q8LP5CS
and
https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Syst.../dp/B000MMH1JO

$45.- for a BlueSea battery switch
https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Syst.../dp/B000MMC914

$88.- extra busbar for 24V, BlueSea 600A
https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Syst.../dp/B000XBB758

$226.- for a Victron 24V to 12V Smart Orion 360W to power all 12V loads and keep start battery in float
https://www.amazon.com/Victron-Orion.../dp/B087CZC211

$226.- for a Victron 12V to 24V Smart Orion 360W to charge the house batteries from the alternator.
https://www.amazon.com/Victron-Orion.../dp/B086KWWK44

$6,335.- for a 120/240V US boat and $5,885.- for a 230V EU boat.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

Just the price of 12V DC kitchen apliances is ridiculous compared to 240V AC, well worth the batteries or a Victron unit, that of course if you don't cannibalize a camper..

We have no 12v kitchen appliances, they all run at 230v off the inverters.

Yes Jedi maybe right, we may be out of context with 12v. However, we built systems progressively rather than rip everything out and start afresh.

Should we change from 12v to 24v? That is a huge amount of work and at no small cost. Difficult to justify if the current 12v system works for us. There comes a point of 'sod it, lets go sailing instead'.

Pete

[JeffOnTheBoat]

$226.- for a Victron 24V to 12V Smart Orion 360W to power all 12V loads and keep start battery in float
https://www.amazon.com/Victron-Orion.../dp/B087CZC211

$226.- for a Victron 12V to 24V Smart Orion 360W to charge the house batteries from the alternator.
https://www.amazon.com/Victron-Orion.../dp/B086KWWK44

I am a little confused on the details. Does the alternator charge a separate 12V LA house bank that does not include the starter LA battery?

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by JeffOnTheBoat

$226.- for a Victron 24V to 12V Smart Orion 360W to power all 12V loads and keep start battery in float
https://www.amazon.com/Victron-Orion.../dp/B087CZC211

$226.- for a Victron 12V to 24V Smart Orion 360W to charge the house batteries from the alternator.
https://www.amazon.com/Victron-Orion.../dp/B086KWWK44

I am a little confused on the details. Does the alternator charge a separate 12V LA house bank that does not include the starter LA battery?

It’s just the start battery. So for all normal 12V loads the power comes from the 24V LFP via the Orion. But when power demand is very high, like starting the engine or using the windlass then the start battery helps with the peaks that are higher than the Orion rating (30A) and after that the start battery is quickly recharged again.

[JeffOnTheBoat]

Okay, that makes sense. Except for I have a Balmer 170A alternator with a Wakespeed regulator. Looks like the Orion would limit my charging to 15A at 24V, 30A from the alternator. To maximize charging from my alternator looks like I would need 5 12/24-15A Orions. Hmm, is that correct? My goal is to use the engine as a generator to fast charge the house lithium batteries. I could instead connect the Wakespeed WS500 directly to the 24V. Then I would need a shutoff signal from the batteries to the Wakespeed and a surge protector. Any better suggestions? Don't you have a high output alternator in you system. My Solar holds me for a few day's but need to top off with the engine every now and then. Ya, add more solar, but not so easy on my boats current configuration.