LiFePO4 (Redodo or Eco-worthy)

[pmar]

Hi, I'm looking into switching my battery bank to lithium, for now I am planning to use 2x 410aH Redodo batteries. I've made some research and checks and I am fully convinced about their quality. BUT I've received some recomendation on Eco-Worthy batteries which are even cheaper as well. Does anyone used them? any opinions?

PS. please dont write me that only Victron/BattleBorn etc batteries are safe, they are build with same quality cells as Redodo and are 3x the price.

[Cari Laut]

Something to keep in mind, is that cell construction is only part of what makes a battery safe - specifically a lithium battery. Temp/current disconnects, charge/discharge control, etc are all something to consider when choosing a lithium battery system. Beauty is always in the eye of the beholder, but when you are talking about potential thermal runaway on an expensive boat (or for some of us, our home), those expensive batteries become a worthy investment.

[flightlead404]

fwiw I really like the litime batteries. I have 3 200AHr "plus" batteries

[GreenWave]

I’d go with Flightlead before ecoworthy or redodo. And a yugo is not the same quality as a Toyota yet both were qualified as safe to be in the roads

[themorb]

Very happy with our LiTime 2x300 AHr, just wish I had a convenient place to put a third one!

[Wandering1]

Having bluetooth to actually see what is happening at cell level makes a huge difference when things go wrong. If your battery does a high voltage disconnect, you have no idea why unless you have bluetooth.
You can do nothing to fix it. It is not a coincidence that cheap poorly balanced cells don't have bluetooth. It would be inconvenient for the battery manufacturer if you could actually see how poor the cell balance was.
In addition, cheap, poorly balanced cells would benefit from an active balancer. These don't get fitted, saving the manufacturer another $

[pcmm]

Unless these batteries have a way to communicate with you that they are about to shut down, I would no put them on a boat, I'd consider them unsafe to install in a marine application. Unlike "dumb" FLA batteries that will work until they are flat(and give you some warning about whats going on), a LifePO4 battery has some "smarts", but the vast majority are not "marine smart" while they can shutdown to protect themselves, do you really want that happening in the middle of a crappy night with the Engine running full trying to get out of a bad spot when the batteries suddenly see something they don't like and shut down the battery? leaving you in the dark with no lights, no instruments, no bilge pumps and trying to figure out why while fumbling around in the dark?

If you go LifePO4, you NEED a way for the battery to communicate what its doing, or about to do to you!!

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Wandering1

Having bluetooth to actually see what is happening at cell level makes a huge difference when things go wrong. If your battery does a high voltage disconnect, you have no idea why unless you have bluetooth.
You can do nothing to fix it. It is not a coincidence that cheap poorly balanced cells don't have bluetooth. It would be inconvenient for the battery manufacturer if you could actually see how poor the cell balance was.
In addition, cheap, poorly balanced cells would benefit from an active balancer. These don't get fitted, saving the manufacturer another $

That’s incorrect. The LiTime batteries without Bluetooth have the highest quality cells and just keep running. Actually, the cells are much better than the renewed cells used for DIY.

Originally Posted by pcmm

Unless these batteries have a way to communicate with you that they are about to shut down, I would no put them on a boat, I'd consider them unsafe to install in a marine application. Unlike "dumb" FLA batteries that will work until they are flat(and give you some warning about whats going on), a LifePO4 battery has some "smarts", but the vast majority are not "marine smart" while they can shutdown to protect themselves, do you really want that happening in the middle of a crappy night with the Engine running full trying to get out of a bad spot when the batteries suddenly see something they don't like and shut down the battery? leaving you in the dark with no lights, no instruments, no bilge pumps and trying to figure out why while fumbling around in the dark?

If you go LifePO4, you NEED a way for the battery to communicate what its doing, or about to do to you!!

Your scenario only happens when you have a flawed system. This is exactly the reason I posted those reference diagrams before, to prevent people ending up with dangerous systems without even realizing it.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

That’s incorrect. The LiTime batteries without Bluetooth have the highest quality cells and just keep running. Actually, the cells are much better than the renewed cells used for DIY.



Your scenario only happens when you have a flawed system. This is exactly the reason I posted those reference diagrams before, to prevent people ending up with dangerous systems without even realizing it.

Not true at all, systems wear. Connections corrode, electronics develop faults, any number of things can deteriorate over time that can cause a fault. To think that only a flawed system can develop a fault is to wilfully be blind to the environment and the toll it takes on equipment. The more information you have about what your system is doing, the better you can address faults when they occur.

But I do agree your reference diagrams are fantastic, but the battery NEEDS to be able to communicate that its about to shut down (Ideally in the simplest manner possible)

[Wandering1]

[QUOTE=s/v Jedi;3878193]That’s incorrect. The LiTime batteries without Bluetooth have the highest quality cells and just keep running. Actually, the cells are much better than the renewed cells used for DIY.
.[/QUOTE
How do you know? Unless you cut the top off you ha e no idea what is going on

[themorb]

Originally Posted by pcmm

Unlike "dumb" FLA batteries that will work until they are flat

My experience with LiTime is that they discharge all the way down to 10.8 volts which is close to 0% SOC, the same as a dumb FLA battery. The difference is you are likely doing less damage to the Lifepo taking it down that low (although still not recommended).

The bottom line is, I went from 800 Ah of high-end Trojan 6 volt FLA batteries to 600 Ah of cheap drop in Lifepo, and my usable watt-hours doubled (400 to 600), the batteries weigh about 1/3 the weight, take up about half the space, and they spend 80% of their cycle above 13 volts which keeps all my electronics happier and my DC watermaker output much higher.

I am sure more expensive batteries are probably even better still, but these are a huge upgrade for me and I am very pleased with them.

[Cheyne]

[QUOTE=Wandering1;3878203]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

That’s incorrect. The LiTime batteries without Bluetooth have the highest quality cells and just keep running. Actually, the cells are much better than the renewed cells used for DIY.
.[/QUOTE
How do you know? Unless you cut the top off you ha e no idea what is going on

You mean like this?

https://youtu.be/tAaThjkazkM?si=ucaaRwGBw9khHjFC

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by pcmm

Not true at all, systems wear. Connections corrode, electronics develop faults, any number of things can deteriorate over time that can cause a fault. To think that only a flawed system can develop a fault is to wilfully be blind to the environment and the toll it takes on equipment. The more information you have about what your system is doing, the better you can address faults when they occur.

But I do agree your reference diagrams are fantastic, but the battery NEEDS to be able to communicate that its about to shut down (Ideally in the simplest manner possible)

Only when you drive them to the point where the risk for HVC exists. I keep repeating that this shouldn’t be done except for controlled maintenance charges while safely moored or at anchor.

When your alternator switches to a 13.5V float after reaching 13.8V then you safely stay away from HVC with healthy batteries. If there’s unbalance in a (sick) battery and this drives it into HVC then you still have a healthy battery online that just has to work a bit harder as you need fault tolerance here.

[SVTatia]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

....
our scenario only happens when you have a flawed system. This is exactly the reason I posted those reference diagrams before, to prevent people ending up with dangerous systems without even realizing it.

Jedi, can you share a link to these reference diagrams?

[CaptainRivet]

[QUOTE=Cheyne;3878219]

Originally Posted by Wandering1

You mean like this?

https://youtu.be/tAaThjkazkM?si=ucaaRwGBw9khHjFC

Well because one is cut open doesn't mean all look the same...Chinese just put together what tehy get....

I am agreeing with you that these Chinese surprise boxes have no bluetooth on purpose to see whats going on. Its below 10Euro to implement.
Doesn't matter how good cells and BMS are if you have no glue what going on inside its a surprise box till something happens and you can just guess why...i am sure every customer of li-time would pay 10Euro extra if they then can see whats going on inside and all chinese BMS in the 50-250euro range and above avaliable have BT build it.

Due to EV crisis you get perfect grade A 304AH EVE for 90Euro, stick a 130Euro JK BMS on top, put it into junforfun kits box and you have a very good, cheap and fully transparant battery where you know whats going on cheaper then comparable redoo,litime or any of them...everybody just cooks with water.

I would get one main battery which has external communication that has enough capacity for 1 day of typical use (this can also be a DIY one), this is your master you can rely on as you know whats going on. Then in parallel Li-time,redoo or whatever you prefer to get capacity you want/need. If its BMS tkae it off because BMS broke or its completely out of balance or whatever your system still runs...
Thats basically what jedi did, he has winstons as main master bank and Li-time to add capacity and take some load of them...if they break no problem but till then give you more runtime on AC etc....

Just do yourself favour and stay away from LFP
A) with pooch cells...they are dangerous and can emit an explosive gas if things go wrong...and if pooch cell is gased dry a lot get an internal.cell short providing the spark to ignite the emited gas...kaboooom
B) 24V or 48V dropins with parallel cells inside, means eg 24V 200AH is made from 16 100AHcells...doesn't matter how good cells are you will get an imbalances that the passive balancer in these cannot fix anymore. Even worse in 48V...in 12V with very good quality cells its ok to have 2P4S inside, these are genuine more stable as only times 4 tolerances add up and a passive balancer can fix if they start to get out of balance.
C) with mosfet BMS inside never exceed 4 batteries in parallel, only exception if manufacturer explicitly allows that. If more then 4 make 2 seperate banks.