Drop in LFP Recommendtions

[sailorboy1]

I am time pressed and have been looking on Amazon. There are LOTS of 12v 100ah drop in batteries in the $300-350 range with good user reviews and specs that good good (yes I have read Mainesails article).

I personally don't feel that except for bad batteries right off that we really will know good ones for at least 5 years. Ones that fail in less than that bad assuming the user didnt do something very wrong.

Who has used any of these and can share brand and you experience so far as to good/bad.

[Captain Bill]

I replaced my 2 210ah AGMs with 3 100ah Chins LiFePO4s last February and left on a 7 month cruise in March. So far no problems at all. I never used the genset for simply charging the batteries, but my setup charges the batteries while the genset is running as the inverter charger senses the power and starts charging. I did this about once a week while running the watermaker. When I installed the Chins I left my start batteries as AGMs and set up the alternators to charge the start bank instead of the house bank and charged the house bank through a DC-DC 30amp charger. I set all the charging devices to charge to 14.2v and float at 13.3 which is roughly 90% SOC. I also set the Inverter charger 120A maximum charge rate as Chins recommends .5c charge rate(150a) for best life expectancy and when the sun is shining my solar charger is often netting 30amps into the batteries. The batteries can accept a 1c charge rate so I'm opting for best life. The typical profile for the day is that the solar gets them to 100% by about mid day and then the charging cuts off and the house loads are covered from the batteries until they get down to 13.3 then the solar covers the house loads while maintaining the battery voltage between 13.29 and 13.3. We typically use 70 or so ah over night, but as we actually start the over night cycle at only 90% we drop to about 70%. If we were running the genset or engines it just meant that we reached 100% much faster but the rest of the profile remained the same. Many suggest never charging to 100% but we never remain at 100% so the impact is minimal (I hope). Buying the 3 Chins, the DC-DC charger, and a new solar controller cost me only about $100 more that the AGMs alone. The last set of AGMs didn't even last 4 years, so If the only make it to 4 years I'm at break even. It will be a few years yet before I know if was a smart or stupid move.

[Nauticatarcher]

Have a look at Will Prowse’s you tube channel lots of tear down reviews on cheaper Lifepo4 batteries

[Chotu]

I got these.

https://www.amperetime.com/

[CarlF]

I have Kilovault batteries - as recommended by Mainesail.

These don’t cost much more than the batteries on Amazon but is a US company affiliated with Massachusetts based AltE who has been around for decades. They have in-house technical support and they are much more likely to be around if you need warranty support.

Both MainSail and Will Prowse found a tear down of Kilovault batteries to be top quality.

,Kilovault has several marine focused dealer expert in boat lithium banks. I used the YachtRigger in St. Petersburg who provided a lot of advice. They can ship anywhere.

Finally use a ABYC electrician. Some insurance companies now require this to insure a boat with lithium batteries.

https://theyachtrigger.com/kilovault/

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I am time pressed and have been looking on Amazon. There are LOTS of 12v 100ah drop in batteries in the $300-350 range with good user reviews and specs that good good (yes I have read Mainesails article).

I personally don't feel that except for bad batteries right off that we really will know good ones for at least 5 years. Ones that fail in less than that bad assuming the user didnt do something very wrong.

Who has used any of these and can share brand and you experience so far as to good/bad.

You get what you pay for, how are all off this cheap one are with warranty claims?

https://www.renogy.com/on-sale/

Christmas sale: 499$ for a quality LifePo4, that’s a hot price and warranty is there if you need it.
You also can get a 40A DctoDC Charger for 129$, the victron is triple the price and just 30A.

[Chotu]

Regarding warrantees, I just want to remind everyone how useless they are.

Do you want to have a battery? Or do you want to have no battery while it’s in the shop? If you buy a battery for half the price and it goes bad, you just buy another one if it has a problem. That’s a better solution than having warranty is in trying to preserve a single unit.

I found out the hard way with outboards that that is the case.

I spent all this money to buy a fancy Honda outboard brand new one time. It never worked right from the start. But I still needed to get back-and-forth in my boat. They wanted to take it into the shop and work on it for weeks. That wasn’t going to be working out. They don’t exactly have loaners that they give you when the outboard that you have a warranty on is not working.

So in boating, warranties are basically useless in a lot of ways. Something to keep in mind.

And that’s not to say the batteries that I bought are in any way deficient in the warranty department. There are plenty of stories of them sending people new batteries, helping them through any issues, and having the batteries work fine the whole time.

[sailorboy1]

So I watched the UTube tear downs and overall the budget $300-350 drop in batteries are pretty good. In my position believing the “better” are worth 2-4 times the price is the same smoke and mirrors that got me to get my FireFly batteries 2.5 years ago. All these years boaters have been buying lead acid batteries and just assuming a better battery just weighted more. There there are the AGMs that they buy that cost 2-3 times “regular” batteries just because people thought they charged fast (they do for 15-30 minutes if hit with a higher enough source) and didn't want to check the acid level once a month. So it is funny how they will hair split the drop in LFPs.

In end I ordered 4 12v 100aH Power Queen batteries for $1319 off Amazon all in. My current charging sources will be fine and will be at least as fast as i ever had and just needs some programing changes.

I could have just gotten “standard” batteries for about $600. But like 2.5 years ago am looking at not having to always be concerned with PSOC. So i am believing some smoke and mirror LFP marketing (my 8+ year tablet battery is working fine), but not a need to believe that bigger smoke and mirrors is really better.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Regarding warrantees, I just want to remind everyone how useless they are.

Do you want to have a battery? Or do you want to have no battery while it’s in the shop? If you buy a battery for half the price and it goes bad, you just buy another one if it has a problem. That’s a better solution than having warranty is in trying to preserve a single unit.

I found out the hard way with outboards that that is the case.

I spent all this money to buy a fancy Honda outboard brand new one time. It never worked right from the start. But I still needed to get back-and-forth in my boat. They wanted to take it into the shop and work on it for weeks. That wasn’t going to be working out. They don’t exactly have loaners that they give you when the outboard that you have a warranty on is not working.

So in boating, warranties are basically useless in a lot of ways. Something to keep in mind.

And that’s not to say the batteries that I bought are in any way deficient in the warranty department. There are plenty of stories of them sending people new batteries, helping them through any issues, and having the batteries work fine the whole time.

Like you we just purchased 2 100ah Ampere Time lithium’s. We purchased through a friend who’s a dealer and he said their warranty and their actions on the warranty has been fantastic. Hopefully something we never need to experience.......

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by smj

Like you we just purchased 2 100ah Ampere Time lithium’s. We purchased through a friend who’s a dealer and he said their warranty and their actions on the warranty has been fantastic. Hopefully something we never need to experience.......

Yes. Once I received these batteries I could tell they were really good quality. Every effort in the world went into the hardware, the support, the instructions. Everything was done correctly. There were no mistakes. No oversights. So I’m assuming that translates into what’s inside the battery as well.

And good analysis Sailorboy. I came to the same conclusions when I was shopping for mine.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Yes. Once I received these batteries I could tell they were really good quality.

How could you tell? From the tear apart videos the outsides pretty much all looked the same and Will Powers even called the plastic boxes the same. I watched at least 6 brands get torn apart and they all looked "good quality" on the outside.

I am just curious.

We have to just face it, we just have to assume what is in these boxes match what the spec sheet says.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

How could you tell? From the tear apart videos the outsides pretty much all looked the same and Will Powers even called the plastic boxes the same. I watched at least 6 brands get torn apart and they all looked "good quality" on the outside.

I am just curious.

We have to just face it, we just have to assume what is in these boxes match what the spec sheet says.

From the attention to detail. I think I described that in the post to begin with?

I’ll say it again. Everything was perfect. The packaging was sturdier than it needed to be. The cushioning in the packaging was better than it needed to be. The hardware they included was carefully and properly included in the packaging. The materials that they included were written correctly in proper English. All of the data on the batteries was included. Anything you could have a question on is included. There is a really good support system included. You can call up and get technical support anytime you want and they encourage that. The fit and finish of the exterior of the battery was flawless.

So based on everything about this company that you can see from the outside, things are probably being done right on the inside as well.

Because let’s be honest here, typically companies mess up everything else and get the product mostly right. If you’re getting everything else right also, you are probably getting the product right.

[sailorboy1]

The Chinese are pretty good at marketing and the 4 Ps of marketing are

-price
-packaging
-promotion
-product

in that order

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

The Chinese are pretty good at marketing and the 4 Ps of marketing are

-price
-packaging
-promotion
-product

in that order

I buy a lot of Chinese stuff now. Including a Motorcycle. Lots of stuff for the boat. Same exact stuff, you just cut out the middleman. First, most of them are good products now. Second, the promotion is terrible because they look like unprofessional companies. Third, the packaging is awful. God awful. Typically things are getting broken when they are shipped to you. The packaging is torn apart. And third, the price they do nail that.

Ampere time is some very very high quality batteries. Everything about the company screams professionalism. Sorry you didn’t get them. They would’ve been a good choice.

[sailorboy1]

You know what? It sure seems crazy to argue about who has the best cheap batteries!