RADAR

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

And they were not waterprooof, so they had to live down below,
And they sucked power out of your batteries by the kilowatt-hour.

Retiring our venerable old Furuno CRT radar was a very happy day on our boat.

Shoulda bought a trawler with a nice dry, warm pilothouse

Curiously the majority of sailboats we've surveyed had the radar, GPS, AIS and VHF down below at a nav station out of sight from the helm.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by Siberian Sea

Without any doubt get a Furuno. I have one on my commercial fishing boat in Alaska (as do most every commercial boat in Alaska) and another on my sailboat. Yes, there are cheaper ones and they have cool bells and whistles to dazzle the user but...... you want this expensive peace of electronics to work when you need it most and you want it to last years. Im dead serious get a Furuno it’s the one that the others are measured against, you will thank me later.

Except Futuno only uses c-map outside the United states. C-map in Canada is beyond awful. They used to offer Navionics until Garmin broke that option.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Siberian Sea

Without any doubt get a Furuno. I have one on my commercial fishing boat in Alaska (as do most every commercial boat in Alaska) and another on my sailboat. Yes, there are cheaper ones and they have cool bells and whistles to dazzle the user but...... you want this expensive peace of electronics to work when you need it most and you want it to last years. Im dead serious get a Furuno it’s the one that the others are measured against, you will thank me later.

If a high end system is in the OPs future, definitely go with Furuno. However many of us do not have the space, budget, or use-case for such a system. Personally, I'm happy with my Simrad EVO3 MFD/Radar system (12" display) I purchased 4 years ago for around $5k (US). This model does have a knob vs pure touchscreen which was a requirement for me.

[sv_pelagia]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

Except Futuno only uses c-map outside the United states. C-map in Canada is beyond awful. They used to offer Navionics until Garmin broke that option.

Not true out in western Canada... CMAP and Navionics essentially the same (indeed, CMAP a little better)

[boatpoker]

Lots of different opinions here but let me offer another 2 cents.

Do NOT mix brands of autopilots, plotters or radar.
NMEA seems to mean nothing to these people and when one won't talk to the other, each will blame the other and your warranty is worthless... ask me how I know

[CarinaPDX]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Do NOT mix brands of autopilots, plotters or radar.
NMEA seems to mean nothing to these people and when one won't talk to the other, each will blame the other and your warranty is worthless... ask me how I know

Chartplotters and radars are a package deal: even inside a manufacturer's line they must be matched, which is why I emphasized chartplotter features for buying a radar. There is no using one company's radar with another company's chartplotter. (For this, considering all Navico brands as one company.)

Autopilots are a different beast entirely. When bought with their own displays/controllers they work just fine independent of the chartplotter and radar, and can take waypoint and route info over NMEA 0183 or 2000 in most cases. However, if you want to use the chartplotter to control the autopilot then it will need to match, within the one company's products. I think that the benefit of controlling the autopilot from the chartplotter is minimal but others like the integration, and elimination of a dedicated display. This is one area where a standard 0183 sentence or 2000 PGN would be a very welcome improvement - just don't hold your breath.

With other devices it is often preferable to buy from a different vendor than the chartplotter. Virtually all speed transducers are made by Airmar, and all chartplotters will display the generic Airmar transducer's data, so this is the easy and cheapest choice. Most depth sounders are also made by Airmar, but fishfinders are often similar to radar in needing to match the chartplotter. Weather instruments, AIS, electronic compasses are all mix and match.

Greg

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

Chartplotters and radars are a package deal: even inside a manufacturer's line they must be matched, which is why I emphasized chartplotter features for buying a radar. There is no using one company's radar with another company's chartplotter. (For this, considering all Navico brands as one company.)

Autopilots are a different beast entirely. When bought with their own displays/controllers they work just fine independent of the chartplotter and radar, and can take waypoint and route info over NMEA 0183 or 2000 in most cases. However, if you want to use the chartplotter to control the autopilot then it will need to match, within the one company's products. I think that the benefit of controlling the autopilot from the chartplotter is minimal but others like the integration, and elimination of a dedicated display. This is one area where a standard 0183 sentence or 2000 PGN would be a very welcome improvement - just don't hold your breath.

With other devices it is often preferable to buy from a different vendor than the chartplotter. Virtually all speed transducers are made by Airmar, and all chartplotters will display the generic Airmar transducer's data, so this is the easy and cheapest choice. Most depth sounders are also made by Airmar, but fishfinders are often similar to radar in needing to match the chartplotter. Weather instruments, AIS, electronic compasses are all mix and match.

Greg

Agree with Greg 100% on this.


On my last boat, I had bleeding edge N2K instruments (wind/depth/speed/etc), an ageing Garmin plotter (just 0183), AIS receive from a VHF on 0183, and a Raymarine autopilot (ST). With the aid of an Actisense N2K/0183 converter, and a Ray ST/STNG converter, everything talked seamlessly to each other. I seem to recall a minor issue regarding sending routes to the autopilot, but since I never do routes that wasn't an issue.


On my current boat, I have a Furuno chartplotter/radar (N2K), Ray instruments and autopilot (ST), AIS and VHF (0183), and a 0183 to WiFi adapter. There is a Ray ST/0183 converter in the system as well. All data is everywhere. Everything works as it should. Still don't know about sending a Route to Autopilot (LOL).


One big annoyance is firmware updates. There is ZERO interoperability. On the old boat, I couldn't update the fancy displays (B&G) or the Airmar wind and water instrument because I didn't have the right chart plotter. The chart plotter is the "gateway" for all firmware. The alternative is to pop out the instrument and take it to a friend or dealer to update it.

[dlj]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Shoulda bought a trawler with a nice dry, warm pilothouse

Curiously the majority of sailboats we've surveyed had the radar, GPS, AIS and VHF down below at a nav station out of sight from the helm.

That's how my boat is set up. I have 0 need to have my RADAR integrated into my chart plotter. When I'm using my RADAR, I simply look at my radar screen. I could integrate my AIS and my RADAR into my chart plotter but I see no reason. It's an added complication and does nothing useful in my case.

dj

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by dlj

That's how my boat is set up. I have 0 need to have my RADAR integrated into my chart plotter. When I'm using my RADAR, I simply look at my radar screen. I could integrate my AIS and my RADAR into my chart plotter but I see no reason. It's an added complication and does nothing useful in my case.

dj

On a majority of sailboats, the nav station isn't visible from the steering station. Having a separate RADAR screen at the steering station, in addition to the chart plotter, is an installation challenge. Same with AIS.


But perhaps one of the biggest reasons to integrate them is the "one picture status." On my chart plotter, I see my vessel, with a 5-minute look ahead arrow. I also see all AIS targets, with a 5 minute look ahead arrow, and I can see the vessel on the chart so I know where he is going and what next turn he will make. The RADAR adds that same information (5 minute look ahead) on any boat that doesn't broadcast AIS. And since stationary targets (rocks, buoys, etc) are overlayed on the chart, you can easily realize that a target on your starboard bow, right on top of a charted buoy, is probably a buoy. It probably explains why few (if any!) RADAR vendors even sell a dedicated RADAR display -- its an added complication that removes situation awareness.

[dlj]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

On a majority of sailboats, the nav station isn't visible from the steering station. Having a separate RADAR screen at the steering station, in addition to the chart plotter, is an installation challenge. Same with AIS.


But perhaps one of the biggest reasons to integrate them is the "one picture status." On my chart plotter, I see my vessel, with a 5-minute look ahead arrow. I also see all AIS targets, with a 5 minute look ahead arrow, and I can see the vessel on the chart so I know where he is going and what next turn he will make. The RADAR adds that same information (5 minute look ahead) on any boat that doesn't broadcast AIS. And since stationary targets (rocks, buoys, etc) are overlayed on the chart, you can easily realize that a target on your starboard bow, right on top of a charted buoy, is probably a buoy. It probably explains why few (if any!) RADAR vendors even sell a dedicated RADAR display -- its an added complication that removes situation awareness.

I should have been clearer in my original post. I can see my radar from my helm plus, with the exception of running my engine and changing sails, I can run my boat from my navigation station inside the boat.

I'm fully aware of why one may wish to have everything integrated into one MFD.

But I am going to strongly disagree with your last sentence where you say it removes situational awareness. I feel the over-reliance on electronics and the integrated displays removes situational awareness. I feel these devices allow you to gain additional understanding of you environment but getting your eyes on what you see and where you are going is more important.

dj

[Exile]

Furuno sells stand-alone, dedicated radar displays. One of their least expensive models even allows two separate monitors to be hooked up to one radome. Problem of not being able to see the radar from the helm solved.

Although I'm sure having radar overlaying onto a plotter is nice and may even improve situational awareness in limited circumstances, having two separate units alongside each other also gets it done. At least for me over many years anyway.

I think the primary reason consumer level electronics mfgs. don't sell standalone radars is mainly for marketing purposes. I for one prefer not to be 'married' to one particular mfg. with the various issues associated with equipment failure, software obsolescence, chart updating hassles, and lousy customer support. In fact, my most recent addition is a dedicated, commercial level PC & nav software and a couple of waterproof monitors. It automatically updates all my (NOAA) charts every time I turn it on (and have internet), and displays AIS and all of my NMEA 0183 data.

I rarely if ever feel the need to run the AP to a waypoint but can do so off my old plotters if desired. Otherwise I almost always run it set to wind or just a course -- no integration required.

I can certainly see the attraction of the graphics and other features of modern marine electronics, but personally find integration rather overrated. To each their own, of course.