Smartgauge w/ 3 batterys

[lateral]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Don't be baffled by BS. So a microP with a slow clock can process math quick. So what? The SG is capable of measuring voltage and time. No more, no less. It cannot perform magic not miracles. As I stated, I can monitor my battery voltage at sunrise and sunset, and know well enough what is going on. Sampling voltage 20 times per second and running 160 algorithms mpay help my batteries last 5% longer.
That would save me $3.14 per year.

For $400 plus installation? No thanks.

That is a valid argument but it is a good lazy mans BM, if you don't charge at night.
ALSO.....EASY to explain if family members are using boat, SOC & how to maintain batteries.
Anyhow, I might have a cheap one for sale soon.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

No thanks.

So you don't have a bank worth going to the trouble, that's fine, I'm not saying all or even most boaters need a good SoC meter.

But many have banks worth thousands of dollars, and caring for them properly can easily extend their life by many years. Not to mention avoiding **unexpected** failures at sea, or just in places far from reasonable pricing.

I have been picking up Smartgauges for $120-140, and can't imagine paying someone to install such a simple piece of kit.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by john61ct

So you don't have a bank worth going to the trouble, that's fine, I'm not saying all or even most boaters need a good SoC meter.

But many have banks worth thousands of dollars, and caring for them properly can easily extend their life by many years. Not to mention avoiding **unexpected** failures at sea, or just in places far from reasonable pricing.

I have been picking up Smartgauges for $120-140, and can't imagine paying someone to install such a simple piece of kit.

A SG cannot extend battery life. It is a tool that can be used to monitor depth of discharge to help prevent premature death. So can a $10 DVM (that one should have at least a couple on board anyway).

If your bank is worth $2000, (most aren't) and you monitor it properly with a $10 DVM, you should get full life expectancy (let's say 8 years) from them. If you get 5% more life using a SG (doubtful, because all it does is give a value in alternate units based on the same thing), that saves you a whopping $12.50/yr.

I didn't suggest everyone needs to have the SG installed by a pro, though I know after 100s of vessel inspections many who think they are marine wiring capable, should not be allowed to own tools.

But anyone who installs an SG on their boat is spending valuable time (we all have a finite amount and even for those who assign a very low value to theirs) could be doing something more productive with theirs.

BTW, I am Canadian, so all dollar values stated are C$.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by john61ct

So you don't have a bank worth going to the trouble, that's fine, I'm not saying all or even most boaters need a good SoC meter.

But many have banks worth thousands of dollars, and caring for them properly can easily extend their life by many years. Not to mention avoiding **unexpected** failures at sea, or just in places far from reasonable pricing.

I have been picking up Smartgauges for $120-140, and can't imagine paying someone to install such a simple piece of kit.

BTW, "picking up Smartgauges...", if you gain financially from the sale of these things you should be declaring that, as your opinion is not unbiased.

I am clearly a marine service provider who performs marine electrical device sales, installation, and service. I make money based on every battery monitor I sell or install, and I still tell customers before selling or installing any kind of battery monitoring device that all they really need is a cheap DVM, and what the various battery monitors will really do for them.

That's because I am honest, am not baffled by BS, and do not attempt to baffle with BS.

(I also hate to see people needlessly carve up beautiful boats installing useless crap that will leave gaping holes down the road when the stuff needs replacing.)

[Bleemus]

Where are you getting them $120-$140? At that price they start to make great gifts for electrically challenged friends!

[john61ct]

What a thoroughly unpleasant series of comments.

And no I am not advertising for business.

Just keep an eye out for bargains on the net, sometimes great values to be found.

[sailcrazy]

Based on the comments above, I guess one could just say a Smart Gauge, or any other Batt Mon, is only good for giving the owner a "warm fuzzy" that their batt bank is in a "generally OK" status? so, an alternative would be to just turn on your batt chrgr, and if the output amp gauge only shows a small amp reading, your batts are in good shape....or, if it jumps to 40+ amps and stays there for a while....well, your batts needed a charge. So .....I guess I can deduce the experts here are saying save your $$, don't make holes in your instrument panel, and just use your batt chrgr.

[Bleemus]

If I were the owner of a charter company I would contract Balmar to make me a charter specific version. It would read 100% when full and 0% when it is actually at 50%. Charterers can blow a bank of batteries in a short season. If you were able to extend it to two seasons that is a significant savings.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by sailcrazy

Based on the comments above, I guess one could just say a Smart Gauge, or any other Batt Mon, is only good for giving the owner a "warm fuzzy" that their batt bank is in a "generally OK" status? so, an alternative would be to just turn on your batt chrgr, and if the output amp gauge only shows a small amp reading, your batts are in good shape....or, if it jumps to 40+ amps and stays there for a while....well, your batts needed a charge. So .....I guess I can deduce the experts here are saying save your $$, don't make holes in your instrument panel, and just use your batt chrgr.

Well, yes and know. If you are always on shore power. Yes. If you are not connected to shore power, that is when you need to monitor battery charge. Battery charge can be easily determined by battery voltage, taking into account charge and load. This last part is a little tricky, and why even a Smart Gauge with all its "algorithms" can't be accurate. With solar it's easy. If you have a normal sized battery bank for normal average load, 12.2Vdc in the morning (before panels are producing) is a little more that 50% SOC, at sunset (panels have not been producing for a half or so, 12.75 Vdc = 100% (for normal FLA batteries).

That's all one needs to know.

With experience you will learn how much supplemental charging (alternator or generator) is required (preferably in the morning) based on the days sun forecast.

As bank capacity diminishes you will see your morning voltage falling lower (while compensating for hours and altitude of sun over the season. If year after year, on about the same date, with about the same sun, you wake up to 12.2 Vdc and then one year you can't keep it above 12.0 Vdc for the morning check, under the same conditions, it is time to replace the bank.

It's not rocket science, but is science, just like that used on rockets. ;-)

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by sailcrazy

Batt Mon is only good for giving the owner a "warm fuzzy" that their batt bank is in a "generally OK" status? so, an alternative would be to just turn on your batt chrgr, and if the output amp gauge only shows a small amp reading, your batts are in good shape....or, if it jumps to 40+ amps and stays there for a while....well, your batts needed a charge.

I would not rely on just reading voltage if I had an expensive bank.

Obviously day sailors with a properly configured shore charger every night should not be too fussed.

But no, reading the SmartGauge gives you a very accurate measure of SoC, just a bit less so when you are actively at that moment charging.

And making sure you don't pull a lead bank below 50% makes a major difference to bank longevity, getting back up to 100% Full only a bit less, together could be a difference of many years.

Watching amps **going in to the bank** is yes a great way to prevent going to float too early.

Just remember if you have loads the charger output doesn't show bank input, for that latter, you need a shunt-based monitor.

Finally, one of the many big advantages of an FLA bank is the ability to use a hydrometer.

[lateral]

Like with navigation, for me I want confirmation I am where I think I am. At least 2x.
Hence my decision to buy an SG.
Now I have a cheap Chinese DVA/ amp counter, hydrometer, and smart gauge.
Plus a fluke clamp meter, Pronautic 1260, Mark Grasser Smartcharge one.
(115A alt/250watts solar)

I like your grass roots approach Rod, but for me, not for the rest of crew.
I don't agree with your appraisal of the SG versus MS's.
From my reading your comments are anecdotal as opposed hands on skeptical testing done by Mainesail.
I agree, for 24/7 charging, its a non-starter.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by john61ct

I would not rely on just reading voltage if I had an expensive bank.

Obviously day sailors with a properly configured shore charger every night should not be too fussed.

But no, reading the SmartGauge gives you a very accurate measure of SoC, just a bit less so when you are actively at that moment charging.

And making sure you don't pull a lead bank below 50% makes a major difference to bank longevity, getting back up to 100% Full only a bit less, together could be a difference of many years.

Watching amps **going in to the bank** is yes a great way to prevent going to float too early.

Just remember if you have loads the charger output doesn't show bank input, for that latter, you need a shunt-based monitor.

Finally, one of the many big advantages of an FLA bank is the ability to use a hydrometer.

So if one with a FLA bank of any quality, assures they do not go below 12.2 Vdc and always return to 12.75 Vdc daily, as measured with no load sag, and no residual charge voltage, how exactly is a Smart Gauge kept between 50% and 100% going to extend battery life for even 1 minute?

Answer: It can't, it doesn't, these are exactly the same thing.

[lateral]

Simple, because I expect the SG to compensate for surface charge in the time frame before charging starts again.
Looking at voltmeter gives me an erroneous reading unless I wait more than X hrs.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

It can't, it doesn't, these are exactly the same thing.

You keep claiming voltage readings while cycling can be used to accurately gauge SoC.

That just isn't true. "No residual charge" or load voltage means letting a bank rest for 48-72 hours, is that really what you mean?

In the past you stated 12V automotive form factor batteries are just as good as top-makers' true deep cycling units, and large parallel-only banks composed of those are somehow just as good as serial-parallel banks made up of 2V or 6V cells.

I realize you don't care about the topic of SoC monitoring, don't have an expensive bank, don't use a battery monitor, don't believe they are important etc.

So why engage in the topic at all? I'm sorry, I'm not going to bother arguing with you, unless it is sometimes entertaining, I don't know if you're trolling, or just obstinately ignorant.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by lateral

Simple, because I expect the SG to compensate for surface charge in the time frame before charging starts again.
Looking at voltmeter gives me an erroneous reading unless I wait more than X hrs.

A Smart Gauge only measures voltage and time. You can do the same thing with a $10 DVM and the ships clock or your phone clock. You can assure your 50% reading is accurate by assuring there is no significant load nor charge. Guess what, when you wake up in the morning and nothing is on, and the sun is very low angle, there is no load and no charge. 12.2 Vdc = 50%. If it reads higher you are golden.

Similarly, at sunset, you have had diminishing charge from solar for some time. At sunset, with normal load (fridge running) if you read 12.75 Vdc, you are 100%.

With these end points, about as accurate as one can get with any tool, one has all they really need.

At any time during the day, one can estimate SOC based on voltage, current, and sun intensity. This is even better than what a Smart Gauge can do. It has no idea what the current is, and why a Smart Gauge is not accurate while charging, which can all waking hours with solar or 24/7 with wind.

Do not be fooled. A Smart Gauge measures voltage and time. That is all. Based on those readings and past trends it guesses at what is going on. A man with a DVM and a clock can do exactly the same thing, only better, he can also see the sun shining, see the wind generator turning, know what loads are on, and shut them off, to take measurements.