FireFly Battery Long Term Users - Speakup

[sailorboy1]

If it stopped going down you are done.

[Peeew]

Was posted: “am now using a 50a promariner pronatic. Custom set to 14.4 bulk and 14.4 float. It’s been holding 14.4v for 2 days.”
My firefly manual says to avoid float as much as possible, but if floating set for 13.4 v. Might be worth checking as the higher float seems to be a cause of problems.
The only way my less than sophisticated Cristec charger will do this is to use the “winter storage” mode.

[sailorboy1]

I never have seen my FF G31s get to 1amp/battery even after 7 hours of being in absorption.

I think people get too caught up in the "manual" that says 0.5amps in the recovery procedure. Be aware it used to say 1.5 amps/G31.

These are "fancy" SLA batteries with a carbon foam grid that is suppose to reduce the very need of these long absorption charges. SLA batteries have been around a long time and are well known. Don't get too blinded by the FF "manual" that has no backup testing available near as I have been able to find. Every time I asked OPE something technical about my FF batteries I would get an answer that included "we know...." with no supporting data. Maybe, just maybe, the problems with the batteries are the manual written based on "we know .....".

[phantomracer]

Yes I relied on anecdotal information when i got the FF in 2016. I guess i got lucky with my set.

Those are the reasons l liked them . Fancly FLA without the FLA headache. Working perfectly as advertised for me. I know many have not been as lucky. At 100+% capacity after 6 seasons, and outlaster expensive fla batteries makes me a fan

I figure posting my story to add to those who also share their experiences.

With lithium becoming popular, unsure what the future is for FF.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by phantomracer

With lithium becoming popular, unsure what the future is for FF.

Could still be lots. When I got my FF I had spent weeks researching the options and was close to just getting new golf cart batteries (still the best bang for the buck). But then decided to get something for the PSOC and had acturally placed an order for a LFP setup. But the LFP was out of stock and as I researched more decided that the other "stuff" involved in them was not worth my time and money to address. So cancelled the LFP and got the plug and play FF even though the FF were $150 MORE expensive.

For me the only advantage of LPH would be 100 pounds weight savings. On my boat that is meaningless. But the advantage of the FF is I could have any 3 of 4 go bad and still have a working battery.

[Peeew]

After four years I have also never done a restoration charge. My trips tend to be 5 months at anchor. But with my usage pattern and solar my batteries don’t often get below 70% SOC so this might not be typical. I suspect that the restore every 30 days recommendation applies to more severe usage.

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Could still be lots. When I got my FF I had spent weeks researching the options and was close to just getting new golf cart batteries (still the best bang for the buck). But then decided to get something for the PSOC and had acturally placed an order for a LFP setup. But the LFP was out of stock and as I researched more decided that the other "stuff" involved in them was not worth my time and money to address. So cancelled the LFP and got the plug and play FF even though the FF were $150 MORE expensive.

For me the only advantage of LPH would be 100 pounds weight savings. On my boat that is meaningless. But the advantage of the FF is I could have any 3 of 4 go bad and still have a working battery.

The other very significant advantage is that LFP charges MUCH faster. With Lead Acid it can take many hours of charging to reach 100% Getting to 100% on solar alone by noon is nearly impossible, and might not even happen after all day with solar, requiring a generator run.

With LFP, getting to 100% by noon with solar alone is pretty easy, with the same sized battery and solar that can't even reach 100% charge with Lead Acid.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by wholybee

The other very significant advantage is that LFP charges MUCH faster. With Lead Acid it can take many hours of charging to reach 100% Getting to 100% on solar alone by noon is nearly impossible, and might not even happen after all day with solar, requiring a generator run.

With LFP, getting to 100% by noon with solar alone is pretty easy, with the same sized battery and solar that can't even reach 100% charge with Lead Acid.

Maybe I guess. But what does it matter as by the time there is enough sun my batteries accept pretty much all of solar left over from running other loads. As long as they get charged what does the time matter? But this is like the marketing story of AGM charging faster. They do in a narrow SOC range.

But all this is off topic. This thread is for long term real user experience of FireFly batteries.

[phantomracer]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Could still be lots. When I got my FF I had spent weeks researching the options and was close to just getting new golf cart batteries (still the best bang for the buck). But then decided to get something for the PSOC and had acturally placed an order for a LFP setup. But the LFP was out of stock and as I researched more decided that the other "stuff" involved in them was not worth my time and money to address. So cancelled the LFP and got the plug and play FF even though the FF were $150 MORE expensive.

For me the only advantage of LPH would be 100 pounds weight savings. On my boat that is meaningless. But the advantage of the FF is I could have any 3 of 4 go bad and still have a working battery.

I hope so. I like the FF a lot, for the reasons you mentioned. Drop in, reasonable price. Ends up being one of the best values out there.

I didn't want to do a crash course in lithium technology and all that goes with them...or the price tag.

Firefly are 'just right'. FLA technology, Lithium-like performance.

If they are available, and their QC improves, when I am ready in 5-10 years, I would surely go with them again!

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by phantomracer

If they are available, and their QC improves, when I am ready in 5-10 years, I would surely go with them again!

You are among the longest real user in the thread.

I wonder if there is a QC problem? Not saying there may have been or wasn't one years ago when production switched to India. But in this thread the use of shore power appears to be the big common item in the batteries going bad. I honestly don't understand why people spending a lot of time with shore power would spend the extra money for fancy batteries. I predict that once the shore power users start to switch to LFP that we see the same problem of those failing.

[phantomracer]

Originally Posted by wholybee

The other very significant advantage is that LFP charges MUCH faster. With Lead Acid it can take many hours of charging to reach 100% Getting to 100% on solar alone by noon is nearly impossible, and might not even happen after all day with solar, requiring a generator run.

With LFP, getting to 100% by noon with solar alone is pretty easy, with the same sized battery and solar that can't even reach 100% charge with Lead Acid.

That IS the beauty of the Firefly, there is NO NEED to EVER get them to 100%. They don't (at least mine) don't care about being flattened and/or left in a PSOC state for long periods of time. Mine get to 100% once a year, at best, on the hard....IF I remember to charge them! They (at least mine) seem to thrive on abuse (unlike standard FLA) . No solar or generator on our boat.

FF sure seem to charge a LOT faster than my old FLA batteries ever did (likely not as fast as lithium).

Comparing FF to standard FLA is a false equivalence .. Don't have to charge to 100% and they charge a lot faster

[phantomracer]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

You are among the longest real user in the thread.

I wonder if there is a QC problem? Not saying there may have been or wasn't one years ago when production switched to India. But in this thread the use of shore power appears to be the big common item in the batteries going bad. I honestly don't understand why people spending a lot of time with shore power would spend the extra money for fancy batteries. I predict that once the shore power users start to switch to LFP that we see the same problem of those failing.

Yea I noticed that too. Seems people MAY be babying them too much. Or it just could be a coincidence.

I know I am a sample of 1. It seems likely I am one of the few that use them for the reason they were created. Used hard, and put away as-is, always in a PSOC. Maybe they don't like being topped off continuously...

So many variables out there and not a large (at least vocal) sample base.

The price of the FF, while not cheap, were reasonable enough for me to torture test without changing my lifestyle. They, so far have lived about as long as 2 sets of more expensive Rolls batteries that I killed ....and they are still putting out 100% after 6 seasons.

Probably.. many people have a hard time breaking patterns of use that have been ingrained in them after years and years..

[sailorboy1]

Based on what I feel I have learned in this thread I am going to change my solar charging setpoints.

Since I am in a slip currently with shore power, but the battery charger off, I am using less daily power because all AC loads are being powered from SP instead of the inverter. Plus we are facing North and getting lots of sun on our panels and the last couple of days we stayed in absorption till they timed out at 6 hours. So solar has way more capacity than needed. So changed the solar to:

- absorption time of 7 hours max
- panel will drop to float if solar output drops to 7 amps. This is about 1.5%C, which is pretty much fully charged and based on my experience with the batteries is past time they have gotten to 0 Ah out on my battery monitor. Today it took 2:31 of absorption time and the freezer and refrigerator to cycle off to drop into float.
- changing the float to 12.7V. This is pretty much no charging and the solar is just powering DC loads
- rebulk to 12.5V. If somehow I use enough to drop that low the panel will try to charge back into absorption and either the time or low amps will drop it back into float. This probably will never happen as the sun probably has gone down

I take these as it appears to be better to "only" be 99.5% charged than to over charge. And there appears to be nothing gained, it appears to even be a negative, to float the batteries at the 13.4V recommended level. These settings should result in my batteries cycling almost all the time in range of 75-100%. I did a similar thing last summer while in a slip, but let the float stay at 13.4V and that now appears to be an issue maybe.

[nwesterne]

I bought my 4 G31 in 2019 and found out last month they are dead. Tested every battery and tried individual recovery charges as per Firefly's requirements for warranty but none of them recovered. My Fireflys were installed according to the parameters set by Firefly when I bought them in 2019 and treated VERY well. Mine were mounted under a settee in our pilothouse. The charger is mounted nearby but well insulated away from the batteries. I attached a series of fans that would run if the temperature near the batteries ever went over 70f just in case. The system worked great but the fans never had to run. We live aboard but haven't been off the dock much in the past year so they haven't been DEEPLY discharged in quite awhile which is probably what killed them- they were never just floated either. I paid over $2000 for under 3 years of use. My last wet bank lasted 9 years and cost me $500. After 3 years of use the prorated Firefly warranty was rumoured to give me the "opportunity" to buy MORE Fireflys at $200 each and no other cash-back option. I say "rumoured" because when I tried to confirm last week by calling Firefly, all voicemail boxes were full and the emergency line option just cut me off.

Just noticed their webpage account has been suspended. Guessing they've folded. Good luck to everyone out there, sorry to be the bearer of bad news but I feel like we've all been screwed.

https://www.fireflyenergy.com

[nwesterne]

I bought my 4 G31 Fireflys in 2019 and found out last month they are dead.
Tested every battery and tried individual recovery charges as per Firefly's requirements for warranty but none of them recovered. My Fireflys were installed according to the parameters set by Firefly when I bought them in 2019 and treated VERY well. Magnum MS2812 charger was set exactly as directed by Firefly. The batteries were mounted under a settee in our pilothouse. The charger is mounted nearby but well insulated away from the batteries. I attached a series of fans that would run if the temperature near the batteries ever went over 70f just in case.

We live aboard but haven't been off the dock much in the past year so they haven't been DEEPLY discharged in quite awhile which seems to be a common issue here. I tried calling Firefly to discuss warranty possibilities but all voicemail boxes were full and their emergency extension disconnects the call. Noticed last week their webpage is no longer up.

If you have these batteries and have been connected to shore power for an extended period PLEASE test them before heading out for a trip.