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mimijane · 21-02-2021, 05:57

Hi Mark,

Maybe the other boat owner doesn't have a GFCI down stream ? I suspect it's the GFCI electronics that needs to neutral tied to ground level.

Cheers,
Mark

**s/v Jedi** · 21-02-2021, 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdsilvers

I've been researching an EFCI/ELCI issue I'm having with my Victron Isolation transformer. I'm pulling my hair out trying to find the issue.

I am trying to figure out if I am chasing real issues or one based on the setup of my installation.

I have installed the Victron 3600 isolation transformer. The output of the transformer goes to a 30m Amp .1s breaker (photo attached).

Every time I turn on the unit and flip on my control panel's power, the GFCI trips.

If I remove the jumper (picture), it does not trip and works fine.

I don't want to 'fix' a problem incorrectly. I have tried to track down a ground fault but can't seem to find one. I noticed from a photo that another boat owner - Jedi - has a similar setup. He is using 120v in and 120v out - but the jumpers were not on J33 & J21.

The manual states to have this jump 'on' for GFCIs to function correctly.

I've hit a wall on this. Any advice from others would be appreciated.

Thanks.

No, don’t install that jumper! It completely defeats the transformer and you will have galvanic corrosion! Like the manual states, the jumper can only be installed while hauled out, the boat on the hard. This is because it has become a shore side installation and to meet code.

Meeting code is all cozy and fine, but you don’t need the jumper for safety because you have the transformer.

Just to make sure: use a multimeter on the resistance setting and test by holding the two probes onto each other: the meter should beep or show zero ohms on the display. Now at the transformer, hold one probe to the input (shore) ground terminal and another one to the ground output (to inverter/charger) terminal. It should not beep and show high or indefinite resistance like when probes are not touching anything. This is the main function of the transformer: isolate the grounds.

mimijane · 21-02-2021, 12:43

Hi,

That's a different jumper, for on shore use.

J33 - J21 in the neutral - ground bond on the isolation side of the transformer.

Cheers,
Mark

mdsilvers · 21-02-2021, 16:31

Thanks for the input, everyone. This is a 240v/50hz input and 120/50hz output. The jumper I'm referring to ties together the G-N. It isn't the longer G to G jumper you need if you are on the hard and out of the water.

It may be that the 60hz GFCI needs to be a 50hz GFCI. I'm going to try that next...if I can find out here in Malaysia.

**s/v Jedi** · 22-02-2021, 05:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdsilvers

Thanks for the input, everyone. This is a 240v/50hz input and 120/50hz output. The jumper I'm referring to ties together the G-N. It isn't the longer G to G jumper you need if you are on the hard and out of the water.

It may be that the 60hz GFCI needs to be a 50hz GFCI. I'm going to try that next...if I can find out here in Malaysia.

G-N jumper: if your inverter/charger is a 120V model then you need that jumper. The reason that I don’t have it is that the output of my isolation transformer is 240V and becomes L1 & L2 without a Neutral. So my inverter/charger is a 230V model, configured for 240V 60Hz with ground relay disabled. After that, a new Neutral and 120-0-120 service is created with an auto transformer.

When exactly does your ELCI trigger? If you connect the boat to the ELCI or when you connect shore power to the isolation transformer? Also, what is the mA rating of the ELCI?

It does not have to do with frequency: the ELCI triggers when the current between L and N differs more than the mA rating of the device. It’s test button connects a resistor between L and G causing a current larger than that mA rating to flow so that it should trigger.

mdsilvers · 22-02-2021, 15:31

Jedi thanks for your comments. The GFCI triggers when I flip the switch on my power panel. It does not trip when 'on'. So I must have a fault somewhere on the boat. I"m going to be isolating and tracing this down today.

The rating for the GFCI is 30mA, .1s.

mdsilvers · 25-02-2021, 04:40

Problem SOLVED. I found the ground fault. On my Paneltronics power board, a small diode goes from N to G. Evidently, when I had a polarity issue at one point in the past, I fried the diode.

Now I need to find out the specs on this guy to replace. It's fairly crispy. Photo below. Thanks for everyone's help!!

dfelsent · 25-02-2021, 04:52

That is a gas discharge over voltage protector. Not a diode.

https://www.bourns.com/products/circ...ed-2-electrode

Mouser or Digi-Key probably sell them.

**s/v Jedi** · 25-02-2021, 05:17

Great teamwork guys!

CharlieJ · 25-02-2021, 05:36

@mdsilvers #53
Excellent troubleshooting!

The failed component is shown on the drawing for a 2 x 30A shore power Paneltronics panelboard as a "Surge Arrestor p/n 281-001". If the boat is plugged into shore power that has been wired with reversed polarity, it will go into conduction which causes the main shore power breaker aboard to trip immediately.