Battery Charger

[Mirage Gecko]

My question is where to connect the battery charger.
On the boat I have two 225 amp 12 volt batteries for the house and a 125 amp for start.I also have solar and a Rutland wind generator both with their own controllers but at this point no battery monitor or 240 volt battery charger.
All batteries into a bus bar and power is directed by house battery switch,engine start and a link switch for all together if required.
Under present use solar and wind keep the batteries at 13. 8 according to the wind and solar controllers but I would like to include a multi stage charger to connect to my Honda 20i or shore power if and when required.
As per the first line where do I connect it ie to one of the house batteries and the current will find its way or ???
Chris

[aboutgone]

Battery switch

[AnchorageGuy]

Connect any of your charging systems to your house bank. Use an echo charger from the house bank to the start battery for charging that. No need to remember switches. A simple set it and forget it. Connect the two house batteries together, positive to positive and negative to negative, if they are not already connected this way. Attach the charger to the positive of one and the negative of the other. That will charge both and make your house bank more efficient. You can add a switch between the two batteries in the positive cable if you would like to isolate one. Be sure and add proper fuse to the positive terminal on the house batteries. Chuck

[svHannabel]

Installing a new battery charger is on my spring "to do" list and I found this article from CF member MaineSail to be super helpful. Check it out.

[djmarchand]

You want a good size charger to minimize running of the Honda EU2000i. But I wonder if Honda makes 240V units? That particular unit is good only for 13 or so amps AC continuously (at 120V) so you can only connect a charger that will draw less. That limits you to a 50 amp DC charger. But that is fine because you shouldn't try to charge flooded cell batteries at more than 25% of their rated capacity.

Almost all chargers of that size have two or even three outputs. Connect one directly to the house and another directly to the starting battery. Use 8 gauge wire and put 60 amp fuses near the batteries.

You can install an Echo Charger or ACR as AnchorageGuy suggests, but with the two outputs you don't have to.

David

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by djmarchand

You want a good size charger to minimize running of the Honda EU2000i. But I wonder if Honda makes 240V units? That particular unit is good only for 13 or so amps AC continuously (at 120V) so you can only connect a charger that will draw less. That limits you to a 50 amp DC charger. But that is fine because you shouldn't try to charge flooded cell batteries at more than 25% of their rated capacity.

Almost all chargers of that size have two or even three outputs. Connect one directly to the house and another directly to the starting battery. Use 8 gauge wire and put 60 amp fuses near the batteries.

You can install an Echo Charger or ACR as AnchorageGuy suggests, but with the two outputs you don't have to.

David

The Honda 2000 will easily power a 60A battery charger...I run mine almost every day and know many cruisers that do the same.


Honda does make a 220v 50Hz unit that they sell in parts of the world that use that power as normal, but you can not purcuase one directly in the USA.

[a64pilot]

Assuming the little Honda is 1600W continuous ( I have no idea but doubt it's 2000) then 1600 div 14 = 114 amps

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Assuming the little Honda is 1600W continuous ( I have no idea but doubt it's 2000) then 1600 div 14 = 114 amps

13.3A at 120V continuous rating.
16.7A Max at 120v for 30 minutes, then the Honda automatically throttles down to 13.3A based on an internal timer.

Be careful with the math conversions, because you will not get 114Amps DC out of your Honda 2000.

[a64pilot]

You should get close, 13.3 x 120 = 1596, so darn close to 1600. Now of course you will not get 100% efficiency in a Battery charger, but maybe 90%?.
Either way you should be able to run way more than a 60 amp charger. Even assuming only a 90% efficiency, that a little more than 100 Amps.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

You should get close, 13.3 x 120 = 1596, so darn close to 1600. Now of course you will not get 100% efficiency in a Battery charger, but maybe 90%?.
Either way you should be able to run way more than a 60 amp charger. Even assuming only a 90% efficiency, that a little more than 100 Amps.

I'm just telling you my real life experience, despite what calculations show....you won't get over 100A...my Honda trips out above 80A Max. My 150A battery charge allows me to dial up/down the load and when I try to push above 80A DC....trip....there goes the breaker on my Honda and the 3 Honda's before this one. After years of living on the hook with a Honda as my main charging device I've found the best fuel usage/Amps sweet spot to be a 60A DC battery charger. When I push up to 75A my fuel usage spikes for the relatively small amount more of Amps. But when I try to go above 80A DC....pop...the honda trips off.

[a64pilot]

Interesting, never had a 2000, the 1000 I took with me to desert storm would deliver a little more than 1000W, all day long, usually Honda equipment will actually best their rating by a little bit.
One thing I had considered is the little Honda will run, but not start most AC's, I had considered a Battery charger and Inverter, using the Battery bank as sort of an accumulator, absorbing peaks. Sounds stupid converting 120 V to 14V to convert back to 120V, as of course there are losses at each conversion, but I don't know what the losses are, but think the newer inverters, at least thequality ones are pretty efficient?

[djmarchand]

Inverters are pretty efficient, about 95%. But not so for chargers. They suffer from inherent inefficiency- converting x watts in to about .7-.8 * x watts out. But they also have a horrible power factor of maybe .8 or so. So from a current standpoint it takes much more current than you might think to produce the DC current output.

David

[a64pilot]

So you could have as much as 30% power loss, Sigh, I guess no free lunch

[SV THIRD DAY]

I'm certainly not a Honda 2000 expert and I'm not a Honda Dealer, but we do have literally hundreds or hours of test data on the Honda 2000's capabilities since we designed our 20 and 30 GPH water makers around what the Honda can power.



I know the 13.3A at 120v and 16.7A at 120v for 30 minutes both from the Honda literature and from real life testing.

Here's some real life data:
Our water maker takes 9.3A at 120v to run, and then we can run a 30-40A battery charger continually on the Honda. I say 30 to 40...because honestly we have seen things varry from Honda to Honda. Some can run a 40A battery charger while running the 9.3A 1.0Hp motor and other tripped the internal Honda breaker and need to stay at 30A.

I would call is a MUST in any battery chager to have a feature that allows you to dial up or down the load the charger puts out to the battery. This way you can double up and run more than one thing at the same time from the Honda rather than a fixed, 60A, 40A, etc charger. Here is a link to the 60A unit I would recommend as a perfect match for the Honda 2000.
http://www.cruiserowaterandpower.com..._Chargers.html
[[out of fairness I do sell this battery charger...so I wanted to say that in full disclosure]]

Overall I absolutely love the Honda 2000 and would much rather run it for an hour per day (or more like I did today to run two loads of laundry in the washing machine...) than run my 8KW diesel genset.

[a64pilot]

RV people gang two of them together, call it a companion, I believe. Great thing with that is if you have a high current demand day, run both, low demand, run one
Apparently people either love them or love to hate them, just a Northern lights 8KW or so gen set is what maybe as much as $15K installed?