General Info: New Lagoon 40 & 50 announced.

[captainjay]

Originally Posted by tuskie

You are probably correct about profit margins. Although, I would assume that a long, successful production run such as the L380 would be far more profitable than a "short life low seller" like the Lagoon 39.

Yes, the L380 cockpit is a tired design that would be difficult to economically facelift. Many, of the sub 40 foot cat market has even more tired designs, with cluttered decks, galley down and main bunks over the bridge deck. Against this the L380 has a clear deck, workable galley up and large comfortable aft bunks.

I wonder whether FP regretted scrapping the little Mahe?

As part of my job as a manager at a charter company I am involved with the sales end of the business as well as the service. The Mahe was one of my favorite boats. We have had four in our fleet over the years and they have been very popular. Having said that the Lucia kicks its ass. It is just a better design nicer salon and cockpit and the owners cabin is incredible.

As for FP the Mahe usually took six months from order to delivery the Lucia is sold out for close to a year and a half. It also costs about a 100k more than a Mahe. So stronger sales, bigger sales volume, and likely not much more expensive to build. I would say they have no regrets.

As for the 380 we have one in our fleet as well. It is a solid proven design. I suspect there are some great values on the used market for these boats.

[d95sld95]

Prices are out for the new Lagoon 40 and 50.

Base price for Lagoon 40 is EUR 256.000.-

Base price for Lagoon 50 is EUR 540.000.-

No details on options and prices yet. Should be available around August.

[wkstar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OL9d6fuymWw

[wkstar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQu2u1ZXlaA

[LoudMusic]

Using this picture as a point of reference, would anyone else prefer the roof extended out to cover a davit installation? So many people do that with a solar panel extension that it seems like it would be more attractive to just include it in the structure of the boat.

[tuskie]

Originally Posted by LoudMusic

Using this picture as a point of reference, would anyone else prefer the roof extended out to cover a davit installation? So many people do that with a solar panel extension that it seems like it would be more attractive to just include it in the structure of the boat.

An extended cabin roof would be very practical, but would probably look aesthetically unbalanced.

A big issue with the new look aft mounted masts is that the boom end is over the davits. This makes the boom end very difficult to access. On the L380, L400 and many other models it is easy to walk to the boom end to zip or unzip the sail bag, untangle reefing lines, check sheaves, evict nesting birds, etc.
On a neighbour's Lagoon 39 the aft few feet of the boom is not accessible from the cabin roof at all. I've noticed them regularly leaning over the back of the roof using boat hooks to try to manipulate lines at the boom end.

As the "new 40" seems to me to be a "Lagoon 39 mk 2" this shortcoming does not seem to be addressed.

BTW, this issue of inaccessible boom aft ends is not only an issue for these new Lagoon models. Only today, I was told by the cruising skipper of a 48 foot alloy cat how he had fallen overboard whilst trying to acccess his boom aft end.

[harvey hellman]

Still dont get the big holes in the rear cockpit roof, rain and waves gushing into the rear lounge, no thanks

[jbinbi]

Following from the web site. SA/D. Assuming the weights are all measured the same (they do say light displacement)

380 77 sq m (80 sq main) 7.7 tons
39 70 sq m (74 sq main) 11.6 tons
40 81 sq m, 11 tons


The 39 sailed horribly in light air. For boats in the carib charter, not so much an issue with 15 to 25 kts constant.

The 40 is a step in the right direction, but no where close to the 380.

On my 380, I can get to the back of the boom to zip up the sail bag, but scares the heck out of me with the boom swinging 6" back and forth at a mooring. No idea how you do this on the 39, 42, and now 40?

[Kentm]

Three questions for me

Why has the 39 sold poorly and the 42 well, and are those issues addressed on the 40? In other words is this really a 39 S2?

Is the mast placement an advantage or disadvantage from the FP or Leopard competition? (For a couple sailing)

Upgrade from the current L400?

Kent Meredith

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by Kentm

Three questions for me

Why has the 39 sold poorly and the 42 well, and are those issues addressed on the 40? In other words is this really a 39 S2?

Is the mast placement an advantage or disadvantage from the FP or Leopard competition? (For a couple sailing)

Upgrade from the current L400?

Kent Meredith

my view :

39 is a fine boat, however it was designed to have screecher as a must for lighter winds. People tend to compare boats on white sail performance base only.

Mast placement - you get better reaching speeds on expense of upwind performance. As most sailing is done downwind, I think it is better for couple, however not all will agree.

L 400 is bigger boat. Likely sails better upwind and slower in reaching mode. Screecher improved performance in sub 17 kn apparent winds for all sailing angles for my L 400. Make sure you have screecher on L 40 as well that is what will give you 200+ nm days.

[jbinbi]

39 sailed horribly in light air. weighed way too much. layout ok. sails well in the carib where lots of charters are.

380 sails great, still sells well. 400 sails great. bigger than 39 by lots.

39 was an attempt to change from the 380/400 design, but didn't do that well. The 42 took lots of the 39 and fixed what was wrong. 40 hopefully does the same.

There are 2 issues that I don't like with my 380. First is that in the cockpit you have to step down into a roughly 18" sq well to get into the cabin, which by the way is separated from that well by a 4" high lip for the slider. It is not on a single level.

second is that the traveller is not controlled from the helm, it is on the aft end of the cockpit. So that means I need to leave the helm to adjust the main.

I would love to have a self tacking jib. One less thing for me to do. Mast placement makes that happen.

I think the 400 is actually a bigger boat than the 40.

[JohninTally]

The self tacking jib would be nice. With the mast stepped further aft, how does that affected balance? Is the CLR moved aft too? The main must be smaller, but it looks like the aft end of the boom is further aft too compared to the 380 sail plan so maybe it's not that much smaller. Wouldn't a genoa or screecher made for this boat be huge? If you detach the self tacking jib, could it accommodate a stay sail and turn it into a cutter rig?

[jbinbi]

In a long discussion with a dealer who just got back from the Lagoon meeting, he said the 40 has lots of the 39 in it. Lagoon realized the 39 had a SAD that wasn't doing it, and the 40 while not giving the ratio of the 'old' series certainly improves upon the 39.

The main is smaller proportionally than the 'old' series. He said all the new boats are made for code 0/gennaker etc. in light air sailing; it is essentially required to use one to get any performance. However, since a very large % of Lagoons market is charter in the carib, where you get 15 to 25 kt most of the time, the standard sail plan is just fine and satisfies the market. In that 8 to 15 range you need the big light headsail. Can't make a cutter, it is not setup for it. Just use the big sail they designed for it.

[tuskie]

Originally Posted by jbinbi

In a long discussion with a dealer who just got back from the Lagoon meeting, he said the 40 has lots of the 39 in it. Lagoon realized the 39 had a SAD that wasn't doing it, and the 40 while not giving the ratio of the 'old' series certainly improves upon the 39.

The main is smaller proportionally than the 'old' series. He said all the new boats are made for code 0/gennaker etc. in light air sailing; it is essentially required to use one to get any performance. However, since a very large % of Lagoons market is charter in the carib, where you get 15 to 25 kt most of the time, the standard sail plan is just fine and satisfies the market. In that 8 to 15 range you need the big light headsail. Can't make a cutter, it is not setup for it. Just use the big sail they designed for it.

"Lots of 39 in the new 40" is a refreshing admission, but probably not a good thing.

As far as "new boats being designed for code 0/ gennaker " and these being essential for light air performance; all I can say is "what' s new?"
All the "older" models of the past 15 years also required such sails for reasonable light air performance, and were designed for such. The difference is that the new models will have even less performance in the same conditions.

My question regarding these new models is; " performance and storage has lost, what has been gained?"

[Factor]

Originally Posted by tuskie

"

My question regarding these new models is; " performance and storage has lost, what has been gained?"

Probably more appeal to their target market. Remember that sales drive their decisions not philosophy - and that is not a criticism, just the reality of their business model