General Info: New Lagoon 40 & 50 announced.

[wkstar]

Any proof of the sales numbers for the Lagoon 39 ?

[arsenelupiga]

i am now really worried about factor. Remembering upsetting his spirit and what unrepeatable words he used describe L 400.

New L 40 is 650 kg heavier, mast 2 metres lower, 5m2 less sail and to top it up it says improved performance

maybe, just let it be and enjoy sailing.

[John Holbrook]

In the charter market most people think a FP47 is a bigger boat than a L450 when it's actual 2" shorter. Buyers though are more astute.

I think Lagoon will end up targeting the charter market. The new brand the owner user market.

Originally Posted by PaulinOz

"The Lagoon 40 = 38.5 feet
The Lagoon 50 = 48.4 feet
FP Lucia 40 = 38.4 feet
RC Leopard 40 = 39.4 feet"

Bugger! will no longer be able to disagree with Factor any more when he claims the big 3 are always over stating their length of their boats.

[Valiente]

Specs, more renders, deckplans...released at Lagoon website also for L50!

[John Casey]

Originally Posted by CbroTheDude

The article posted earlier is mostly from this presentation
http://files.newscenter.webdisclosur..._YMasselot.pdf
A few hints also there, who knows how close reality will prove to be?
http://files.newscenter.webdisclosur...nt_RTourte.pdf

Great briefs. Thx.

[c-reel]

Originally Posted by CbroTheDude

The article posted earlier is mostly from this presentation
http://files.newscenter.webdisclosur..._YMasselot.pdf
A few hints also there, who knows how close reality will prove to be?
http://files.newscenter.webdisclosur...nt_RTourte.pdf

Any takers to bet on which quadrant (page 7) the new brand is going to be?

Looking at Yann Masselot's presentation page 13: performance only 10%, so Outremer likely safe. Unlikely moving from the top left quadrant to the top right.

Now considering Lagoon occupies pretty much the entire top left, and the bottom left is cheap stuff Bali and Leopard already are trying to escape as the market expects comfort, Catana has to be the target. (unless the presentation is biased showing Bali moving up, and the hidden agenda is to occuy the bottom left low-cost/simple/rental only market, which again would be strange as it seems still best served by the top-left anyway...)

Somehow aligned with the Beneteau presentation, more expected value/return, but more R&D investments and fast TTM, so need to introduce models faster.
Leveraging Lagoon experience, but getting lighter boats (innovation), with dedicated "cruising performance" equipment would be an faster market entry.

so really think top right is the target !

This gonna be fun to watch

[jbinbi]

Bene's expertise is cranking out lots of product at a good price using their huge buying power. I don't believe their cat entry would be very far from the middle of that graph, they have to target volume. It might be to the right of lagoon, and I would think it would have to be so they don't wind up with a GM like situation (too many brands that users can't differentiate from), but definitely not so far right as Catana. I think you will either see a bit better performance for the same price as Lagoon, or possibly a more entry level with less luxury. Lower price allows a larger market to be targeted with higher production normally. OTH, you can't get a Lagoon 77 for 4 years...But a Bene cat should be a new thread.

However, to get back on topic to the thread of the Lagoon 40/50. These are clearly taking their cues from the tremendous success of the 42. The price I had heard from a dealer was about 425, but that was not official. A 380 goes out the door for 340, and 42 for 540. So I am not sure they will discontinue the 380, it still sells really well. Dealer meeting is happening now, so we should have real pricing very shortly.

[Cotemar]

Lagoon needs a clean slate, as there product line is a bit fragmented.

Having 38,39,40,41,42,44,45,47,50,52 is just a CRAZY fragmented lineup with just inches between its models.

It's no wonder that customers are so confused in which one they should buy.

The success of the new Lagoon 42 is showing them the way to revamp their whole Catamaran lineup.

[CbroTheDude]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

Lagoon needs a clean slate, as there product line is a bit fragmented.

Having 38,39,40,41,42,44,45,47,50,52 is just a CRAZY fragmented lineup with just inches between its models.

It's no wonder that customers are so confused in which one they should buy.

The success of the new Lagoon 42 is showing them the way to revamp their whole Catamaran lineup.

I guess you are introducing discontinued models here as the correct lineup is 380, 39, 400, 40, 42, 450S, 450F, 50, 52S, 52F, 560, 620, 630MY, 77, 78. Sure is confusing as hell, now names don't even match the sizes anymore.

[Cotemar]

Originally Posted by CbroTheDude

I guess you are introducing discontinued models here as the correct lineup is 380, 39, 400, 40, 42, 450S, 450F, 50, 52S, 52F, 560, 620, 630MY, 77, 78. Sure is confusing as hell, now names don't even match the sizes anymore.

And all the Catamaran makers want to be out of the Hobby Horse Market, so they make 38 footers and call them 40 footers to confuse new buyers.

It all BAD marketing.

[captainjay]

Originally Posted by CbroTheDude

I guess you are introducing discontinued models here as the correct lineup is 380, 39, 400, 40, 42, 450S, 450F, 50, 52S, 52F, 560, 620, 630MY, 77, 78. Sure is confusing as hell, now names don't even match the sizes anymore.

They discontinued the 39 before Miami, the 400 is down to a few hulls available it to is discontinued. They are still building the 380 because it occupies a slot from a money standpoint that no one is currently building. Inexpensive by comparison but it definitely has an expiration date.

As for the new brand it will be upscale the 77 and 78 or their replacements will be re-branded with the new name. I would not be surprised if anything over 55 feet gets re-branded/replaced. Think of it as more like Toyota and Lexus. The biggest hurdle is expanding production capability. That part is expensive and risky if the economy turns at all.

[CbroTheDude]

Originally Posted by captainjay

They discontinued the 39 before Miami, the 400 is down to a few hulls available it to is discontinued. They are still building the 380 because it occupies a slot from a money standpoint that no one is currently building. Inexpensive by comparison but it definitely has an expiration date.



As for the new brand it will be upscale the 77 and 78 or their replacements will be re-branded with the new name. I would not be surprised if anything over 55 feet gets re-branded/replaced. Think of it as more like Toyota and Lexus. The biggest hurdle is expanding production capability. That part is expensive and risky if the economy turns at all.

I don't see any reason why the 380 souls be replaced, it's a proven design which works well in its scale. We might eventually see an S3 version of it for slight upgrades.
As for the big units, the 78 has floated for the first time less than a week ago and they definitely are in the lagoon style of brand so renaming them would be surprising when the future brand claims to fill an existing void in the market

[tuskie]

Originally Posted by CbroTheDude

I don't see any reason why the 380 souls be replaced, it's a proven design which works well in its scale. We might eventually see an S3 version of it for slight upgrades.

I totally agree. There's plenty of life remaining in the L380 model, especially with an interior face lift. Several competitors in this size sector are less functional as a cruising boat and are of much older and more tired design, and they are still being flogged off in the marketplace.

The moulds have a finite life, so a decision to make new moulds must stand up to fears of reduced future sales. Most other catamaran manufacturers would love to have such a guaranteed future seller as the L380.

[captainjay]

Originally Posted by tuskie

I totally agree. There's plenty of life remaining in the L380 model, especially with an interior face lift. Several competitors in this size sector are less functional as a cruising boat and are of much older and more tired design, and they are still being flogged off in the marketplace.

The moulds have a finite life, so a decision to make new moulds must stand up to fears of reduced future sales. Most other catamaran manufacturers would love to have such a guaranteed future seller as the L380.

This boat will go for the same reason the Mahe went at FP. Production capacity and margins. The Mahe was still selling well. Both companies can only build so many hulls and there simply is not as much money or profit in the less expensive boats. It is currently doing well because there is no real competition in that segment. The cockpit is a bigger problem than the interior. It is a tired well like design that has been replaced with bigger open spaces on almost every production boat.

[tuskie]

Originally Posted by captainjay

This boat will go for the same reason the Mahe went at FP. Production capacity and margins. The Mahe was still selling well. Both companies can only build so many hulls and there simply is not as much money or profit in the less expensive boats. It is currently doing well because there is no real competition in that segment. The cockpit is a bigger problem than the interior. It is a tired well like design that has been replaced with bigger open spaces on almost every production boat.

You are probably correct about profit margins. Although, I would assume that a long, successful production run such as the L380 would be far more profitable than a "short life low seller" like the Lagoon 39.

Yes, the L380 cockpit is a tired design that would be difficult to economically facelift. Many, of the sub 40 foot cat market has even more tired designs, with cluttered decks, galley down and main bunks over the bridge deck. Against this the L380 has a clear deck, workable galley up and large comfortable aft bunks.

I wonder whether FP regretted scrapping the little Mahe?