52: Lagoon 52

[roetter]

I run a 6-times purchase barber-hauler from the clew of the jib to the mid-ship cleat. Gives me great twist control off the wind.

I just loved the fly bridge "again" on a 1600+Nm delivery from the Chespeake to Grenada. Same during a cross-atlantic trip 1.5 years ago.

[pbr]

Setting a barber hauler is a solution. But having to go out there and release and reset every time you have to adjust the sheet or angle of attack is not what I call "ease of handling". Ideally the jib should be self-vanging where all you need to do is adjust the sheet. As to fly bridges, I think they are great for island hopping day sails in a bareboat charter environment.

[Freedom52]

Originally Posted by pbr

Setting a barber hauler is a solution. But having to go out there and release and reset every time you have to adjust the sheet or angle of attack is not what I call "ease of handling". Ideally the jib should be self-vanging where all you need to do is adjust the sheet. As to fly bridges, I think they are great for island hopping day sails in a bareboat charter environment.

Get a clue. I had no mainsail available, only jib on 52, with not perfect set, and saile away from SVG south at 8kts while dry, secure and comfortable on a night passage. Later we slowed to 6 CMG. Oh well, still dry, good viz and comfie. Also could watch from inside. I think you just don't like yachts and want a sailboat. The world is changing changing, technology is rising and old school cruising is not something to debate on this thread. We are spending well over $1M to have a sailing catamaran yacht. I wish lagoon could do better, but we have very little in common with a bareboat cat.

If I need more speed, I roll out a big ass sail, or turn up my engines. What's your point? My wife is inside with the AC on, do you think she or our guests care about the compromise of a self tacking sail n a 100km overnight trip?

[DoubleWhisky]

Originally Posted by MehmetCan

Long story short, can't expect German engineering from a French boat!

You mean Bavaria or Hanse

[pbr]

Originally Posted by Freedom52

Get a clue. I had no mainsail available, only jib on 52, with not perfect set, and saile away from SVG south at 8kts while dry, secure and comfortable on a night passage. Later we slowed to 6 CMG. Oh well, still dry, good viz and comfie. Also could watch from inside. I think you just don't like yachts and want a sailboat. The world is changing changing, technology is rising and old school cruising is not something to debate on this thread. We are spending well over $1M to have a sailing catamaran yacht. I wish lagoon could do better, but we have very little in common with a bareboat cat.

If I need more speed, I roll out a big ass sail, or turn up my engines. What's your point? My wife is inside with the AC on, do you think she or our guests care about the compromise of a self tacking sail n a 100km overnight trip?

Knowing how to sail is not "Old school technology" I prefer "yachts" that can sail and are set up for ease of handling, evidently your happy with a motorsailor for your "night passage". If you ever progress as a sailor and do some ocean sailing you will come to appreciate "Yachts" that are properly set up for ease of handling and sail trim.

[Freedom52]

Originally Posted by pbr

Knowing how to sail is not "Old school technology" I prefer "yachts" that can sail and are set up for ease of handling, evidently your happy with a motorsailor for your "night passage". If you ever progress as a sailor and do some ocean sailing you will come to appreciate "Yachts" that are properly set up for ease of handling and sail trim.

Oh, forgot to mention that in 20+kts of trade wind we made 9 kts SOG with our jib. What makes you think we don't know how to sail? Saw Bob Redford's movie the other night, and watched his character sink a Cal 39. We had one of those too. Forgot how small it was inside, but I was younger then and didn't mind.

You remind me of folks who claim Lagoon flybridge is bad; but never made a passage on one.

So go ahead and hit your foredeck at 3am and trim your performance yacht. I prefer to not worry about 1/10th of a knot and stay safely in my helm seat, trimming the best I can. Try not to be upset if I pass by you, like I do so many performance monohulls, while relaxing. Please point out to your crew and guests that the twist in my jib is less than ideal.

I did 4,000nm this past year in the Caribbem, mostly in the southern portion where we have no shortage of wind. My engines have less than 500 hrs. How about you? Last time I checked, the Atlantic Ocean is the one I am sailing on the perimeter of. Did I mention also that I generally am singlehanded? So much for your concern about "ease of handling."

Why are you even on this L52 topic page?

[GGT]

This thread seems to have taken a different path, but I wanted to comment on my experience with a Lagoon 52

I chartered the 6 cabin layout last month in the BVI for 2 weeks. My brother chartered the Lagoon 450 (I have also chartered the 450 last year), so I have some performance information between the two.

First let me provide some resume details. I have been sailing since I was 3 years old. Primarily on lakes and on monohulls from 21 to 46 Ft. My Charter experience has been primarily on Multihulls. I have chartered a 2003 Leopard 47, a Lagoon 420, a Lagoon 450, a FP Salina 48, and the Lagoon 520. All charters we more than 10 days.

My goal is to move to a Cat and sail around the world so I have been chartering many types to see what I like. I was really looking forward to the 52 as I think the 560 is too big especially given much of the feedback on this site.

Back to the 52. There was a lot to like about the boat, but there was also a lot not to like. Performance wise the 450 ran circles around us. My brother and I have the exact sailing resume. So you can claim not racing, this or that, but we are competitive with equal experience and I could not keep up with the 450. He was in the 3 cabin version, I in the 6 cabin of the 52, but this was not even close.

One thing I noticed on the 52 is the way the main is setup, it is much slower on the starboard tack. The only thing I can think of that would cause this is the way the main is sheeted. It tends to move the boom way further port on this tack. The boat sailed 2 to 3 Knots slower to windward on this tack. No matter what I did, I couldn't get both tacks to show the same progress. (we would do 5knots on starboard and 7 to 8 on port with no changes to any line and trying to hold same degree off wind, roughly 50 degrees). I tried moving the traveler more to starboard, but even if I have the traveler 100% to starboard it didn't move the foot of the boom much further that way. Not a good setup in my opinion.

The upper driving station was a big hit, except for actually driving from there. The back support for long watches at the wheel was horrible. That said we solved the problem by moving the back cushions all the way back to the railing and attached them there. Then just laid out across the whole pad. This was very comfortable. The reality is you don't have to sit at the wheel. If you had too, this wouldn't work out too well as there is no support from the cushion velcro'd to this space. The solution here would be one of those back rests connected to a solid pole that could be moved back or forward so the rest could support you if you were facing forward or backward (The Leopard 47 we chartered had this on the driving station).

The self tacking Jib, while a nice thought didn't work well. It was next to impossible to get the entire sail powered up. The top 3rd of the sail was generally luffing in the wind. The stoppers would take a beating on each tack, so much so, they were jammed and you could not move them. I had the charter company unjam them once for me and set the blocks out as wide as they would go. This was better as I could manage sail angles with another line and the amidships cleat.

I was looking forward to turn the wheel sailing, but given the issues, I had to constantly retune on each tack to not be so embarrassed by my brother's 450, but it didn't matter what I did, he kicked my ass to every stop.

The compression post in the Saloon was not an issue for me. I have seen some other designs by other manufactures that did this better, but not a big deal for me. The bigger issue was lack of storage in the 6 stateroom version. There are no usable lazaretes in the back of the boat. There was 1, but it was used with electrical lines and other cleaning supplies. We ended up using the crews quarters in the front to hold all the dive gear and other items.

The state rooms were ok, but the two aft staterooms did not have blinds over the doors, making it easy to see in those at night. We did rig some covers, but one would think Lagoon would have figured these would need to be covered to provide privacy and shade out the light if one wanted to sleep in.

The watermarked was located in the amidships stateroom on the starboard side of the boat. It was so difficult to get to this device it made it impossible to switch filling both water tanks. This was only an issue because the watermaker had an issue and was popping the breaker that it shared with the AC. We were able to keep things going, but sometimes things were not working out so we used water out of the second tank. The watermaker was throwing an error, but I couldn't get details on the error. We did manage to get water made and never ran out, but took some coordination with AC to make that happen. The breaker for this was in the front of the boat with the Genset. A fan was affixed in front of the breaker and ran constantly, so I am guessing this is a problem. Not sure why a fan would be in that room since there are fans for when the genset is running.

The other big issue is there are no finger holes in floor boards, so when you need to get to a seacock or change toilet to flow to holding tank or overboard, you have to use a suction cup to get the boards up. In an emergency situation I guess the floor boards would be floating, if not, it would be very difficult to get them up to see what the problem is.

Some people have mentioned the height of the boom, so I thought I would mention that the bimini has rigid sections for walking on, so getting up there to fix issues with reefing lines, etch was not too big an issue. I would not like to do that in 40knts of wind in big seas, but it is possible, just way more risky. My suggestion is reef soon or drop the main if you see weather coming. We did hit some squals that took us to 35knts of breeze and reefed in that wind without any issues.

As far as a party platform at anchor, the boat rocked. All had a great time only the sailors were a little disappointed with the performance.

I don't think I would buy one of these. Leaning towards a 450 now. I am 6'4" which minimizes my options for headroom.

That's all I can think of for now. Let me know if you have questions

[Freedom52]

Hi GGT,

I have some feedback for you from my experience owning a L52 for one year now. Although I do limited charter with mine, I am constantly investing to make Freedom more of a custom yacht; and less of a bareboat. I agree with the helm seating, and I installed twin helm seats to solve the problem and make a nice upgrade, taking a cue from the way nice poweryachts are equipped to make the driver feel comfortable. I corrected the electrical system faults (and actually got Lagoon to agree that they got the circuit breakers from the Genset wrong). I rigged the jibcar track with 2:1 lines and cleats to eliminate the stoppers and get more control of the jib during tacking and stop the banging. I agree this should be the way it is delivered from the factory, but again, Lagoon only gives you a starting point for a really nice yacht or a bareboat.

The six cabin is definitely for charter only, and on my four cabin the under floors are much more easily accessible and we keep the nice suction cup handle nearby at all times. There is a lot of noise suppression in those boards and I would not want finger holes. My large watermaker works really well, and I don't have to look at it much because the repeater control panel is at the salon nav station.

I too had privacy problems for the aft Port stateroom and finally Lagoon came up with a solution and a nice fitted shade; but I had to really press hard to get one shipped to me and then figure out how to install it. This is the price to pay for being an early hull number without the issues really tested. In fact I don't think Lagoon tests these boats at all based on the glaring issues I have discovered and had to repair or re-engineer.

Sailing is a big issue. I have not experienced the same as you with regard to overall performance or dissimilar performance on port vs stb tack. I note that the "diamond" rig shrouds greatly limit the downwind options unless you want to rest the battens on the shrouds which I like to avoid. So the trim is very limited, generally speaking. I agree about the jib set, and this is a problem that will require a new cut of sail to fix and I am not ready to tackle that quite yet. I find the performance under sail to be pretty good, and I will go out in the next week or two and match race a L450 to see the results, because now I am curious. I did win the MH class at the Grenada Regatta, and beat a lot of go-fast monohulls, while relaxing on the flybridge and virtually sailing singlehandedly; and so I suppose it meets my requirements. When the wind is in the wrong direction or the clock is working against me, I use the engines. That said, after 4,000nm I have less than 500 hrs on the twin Yanmar 75HP's. I did invest a lot of money on a drum furled gennaker on the bowsprit, at about 180 sq/m! When we can roll out this colorful sail, it lifts the boat out of the water and we feel like we are flying, which is pretty amazing considering our weight and size. I would like to own a Gunboat 70 one day and then performance will be at the top of my list, but for now my need is for an all around yacht and good platform to call home.

Bottom line for potential buyers, if you are the fully optioned buyer, plan to spend another 10% to "upgrade and fix" in year one. At present prices that is about $100-150K. Forget about the warranty, it is like pulling teeth and the factory really does not care. If you choose a good dealer, perhaps he can mitigate a bit.

I'll be happy to send you a link to all of my customizations, which are numerous. Freedom will be available for luxury crewed charter in the BVI this winter, as I am on medical leave in November.