420: Lagoon 420 Owners & Fans

[LtBrett]

Limpet,

I can tell you that Waypoint can certainly motor for as long as her fuel will last. Her cruising speed under aux propulsion alone is about 6.5 kts, drawing about 40 amps per shaft. Multiplying by the generator voltage of 168 gives wattage used of 13,440. Waypoint has a 17 KW genny, so she can motor at full cruising speed. Assuming the genny uses 1.5 gal per hr, her twin 26 gallon tanks will last just over 34 hours, in addition to the rougly two hours of motoring on battery alone. The new 420's have a slightly different system, but I would bet they are all designed to motor as long as fuel lasts. In heavy weather, I'd much rather be under sail than power, although the immediately available torque from the electric motors would be very handy augmenting the rudders.

Brett

[ess105]

Originally Posted by Limpet

Can the one diesel engine provide enough power to drive both electric motors continuously? Under this condition, how long would the fuel last?

Recent manufacters info for L420 :

With the 13.5 kW genset, the cruising speed on motor is 5.8 knots
With the 21 kW genset, the cruising speed on motor is 7.2 knots

Compared to twin 30hp diesels, the hybrid uses 50% less fuel.

The simple answer is that the hybrid will last twice as long.

Steve

[Limpet]

Well, that is good news. 36 hours of motoring would do the trick I'm sure. Plus if there was any form of wind generator or solar on board it would it extend that further. There is also the time the batteries would provide.

[Quiet Riot 420]

From my calculation, the 420 with the 21.5 genset and the twin fuel tanks, shoud be able to motor on genset only for about 1000 milies at 7 MPH and better than 1200 miles at 5 MPH. Try to find another 42 foot 15 ton cat that will do that!

Fair Sailing _(\_
Quiet Riot 420

[Quiet Riot 420]

Schoonerdog,

Yes, I was considering putting L-ion batteries on my 420 when I phase out the standard batteries that come with the boat. The Valence battery site does not mention dealers or cost. Do you know how to get a quote on the 100 Ah 12 volt battery that they make. Down the road if we bought in a co-op with numbers, we might be able to get a better price. Just 5 boats would need 140 -100 Ah batteries.

Fair Sailing _(\_
Quiet Riot 420

[Intentional Drifter]

On the Electric Main Drives thread, there were a couple of quotes obtained:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ence#post33419

ID

[ess105]

Originally Posted by Quiet Riot 420

Schoonerdog,

Yes, I was considering putting L-ion batteries on my 420 when I phase out the standard batteries that come with the boat. The Valence battery site does not mention dealers or cost. Do you know how to get a quote on the 100 Ah 12 volt battery that they make. Down the road if we bought in a co-op with numbers, we might be able to get a better price. Just 5 boats would need 140 -100 Ah batteries.

Fair Sailing _(\_
Quiet Riot 420

By the time our lead acid reach the end of their servicable life, I am hoping the cost of the L-Ions will have dropped somewhat. We'll have to stay in touch as the practicalities and benefits of a group purchase should be considered at the time.

Steve

[Octopus]

Originally Posted by LtBrett

I'm back from a week aboard Waypoint, and I posted a detailed log of my adventures on TTOL...."

I'd be happy to answer any other questions abotu my experience. BTW, I booked Dignity, an electric 420 for next season.

Cheers!
Brett

Thanks for the report Brett. That's encouraging. It sounds like the hybrid system on Waypoint is a workable solution once you get used to the foibles. Hopefully the 420 will be better.

Chris

[Don K.]

Hi all,
hi Steve, QuietRiot and Planet,

first of all: happy 2007 and hopefully deliveries without any problems for all of us... :-)

Loads of postings while I was away. Did your message to Lagoon cause any response? Unfortunately I couldn't participate since I was travelling abroad. From what I read there have been two deliveries to the US? Do they work? Any other - hopefully good - news on the subject electric drives?

The posting of Biaha supports us in our optimism, although I believe that mentioning the problems of the 420 in the forum will not cause any negative effect. Anyone interested in the vessel will sooner or later find out whether it works or not...

Don K.

[Don K.]

Sorry Chris,

forgot to mention you! ALL THE BEST for 2007.
Any news from your dealer? Date of delivery already confirmed? We are still struggling with our dealer. But hopefully he will come out with it at the beginning of this year...

Don K.

[ess105]

Hi Don,

Happy New Year to you too.

Delivery dates have gone back but it seems this may be the last delay. Dignity (hull #20) went from March 9th to April 2nd. Doesn't impact my charters or my own plans as we had some buffer built in. I have heard that the papers were exchanged between Lagoon and CatCo for hulls #5 & #7 just before Xmas. The boats, I assume, will be handed over very soon.

This leaves less that one boat a week to be produced between now and April so this doesn't look too aggressive just yet. We'll know more as we get better insight into what boats are coming off the line.

Steve

[Don K.]

Hi Steve,

sounds good! If No. 5 and 7 will be delivered within due course does that mean the problems with the e-system have been solved?

Don K.

[ess105]

I understand the major functional issues are all resolved. There was an outstanding issue regarding when the genset kicks in which they remain committed to resolve.

[Octopus]

I too am now being told by my UK broker that all problems are resolved and the 420 is in full production. I've also been promised a sea trial in the last week of January.

I have also received a newsletter from Lagoon that is very upbeat.

My broker is recommending the larger genset. I'm inclined to stick with the smaller one, but will consider retrofitting a second small genset (if there is space) to gain some redundancy or upgrade to the larger genset if there isn't space for two or if the economy or weight of two gensets is significantly poorer than one large one.

Chris

[Intentional Drifter]

Chris -- if you can convince them to give you the 21.5 kw genset at the original price (rather than the much more expensive current price), then definitely do it. The 13.5 kw genset weighs 695 lbs (315 kg) with the soundshield vs 930 lbs (422 kg) for the 21.5. So the power to weight ratio is in favor of the 21.5. Also, fuel economy will also be in favor of one 21.5 rather than a combination of two gensets to achieve the same output. While the fuel economy is better for the 13.5 at lower outputs, that changes in favor of the 21.5 once you reach the upper limits of the 13.5.

I, too, was skeptical at first. Then, I started reading the Onan literature and figuring out difference scenarios. I'd rather have excess, unused power available than not have the ability to obtain the power I need. The 21.5 with the extra fuel tank should allow a range under power of over 1000 nm.

ID