420: Lagoon 420 Owners & Fans

[ess105]

I have the owners newsletter too and am looking forward to the updates.

Good the see that hulls #4 & #6 are now out of the factory and the rest up to #10 will be ready by end of January.

Quiet Riot 420 is Hull #11 so it must be getting quite exciting for Doug and Charlie.

[jean1146]

There is a good article about the Lagoon hybrid in the french version of multihull magazine.JC.

[Limpet]

Did we ever get any definitive resolution on the displacement of the 420?
I know there was some response from Lagoon, but that is like asking the wolf if we can trust him to watch the chickens?
It seems to me that the 420 is way to heavy and I would like to understand why? I just happened notice that the Lagoon 470 is listed at about 20Klbs whereas the 420 is 25K lbs. The Dolphin 460, is listed at only 15K pounds. If this is a true comparison, then you would need to pile three cars on the deck of the Dolphin to equal the weight of the 420.

Does anyone know the true sailing weight of any of these cats?

[Intentional Drifter]

Limpet --

This is not as easy a comparison as it seems. The EU has changed the way they measure weight such that they are not necessarily measuring the same thing, in the same way.

You can see more about this at:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ment#post53541

Even with this understanding, yes, the boat does seem heavy, and it probably is. Is it too heavy? I guess that depends on what you expect in terms of performance. The only "independent" (and I say that with some doubt) evaluation, by Multihulls World, indicates reasonably good performance, at least in comparison to other cruising cats. We also have the observations by one of our forum members, Peter Cronk:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...html#post50610

He also saw reasonable performance (if you consider that as 50% of wind speed) for a cruiser.

I've been on the Dolphin and I doubt very much that it is only 15K when kitted out in the same manner. Same goes for the 470.

"True sailing weight" can only be determined by taking a specific boat, kitted out as you want it, and weighing it. Folks who have done this have usually been surprised to see that their boat was a lot heavier than they thought.

ID

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by Limpet

Did we ever get any definitive resolution on the displacement of the 420?
I know there was some response from Lagoon, but that is like asking the wolf if we can trust him to watch the chickens?
It seems to me that the 420 is way to heavy and I would like to understand why? I just happened notice that the Lagoon 470 is listed at about 20Klbs whereas the 420 is 25K lbs. The Dolphin 460, is listed at only 15K pounds. If this is a true comparison, then you would need to pile three cars on the deck of the Dolphin to equal the weight of the 420.

Does anyone know the true sailing weight of any of these cats?

If any of these thing's were ever raced, which I doubt due to the weight, there should be records of the wight so that handicap's could be calculated.

Not trying to say bad thing's but I am amazed at the difference in weight compared to say a Schionning of similar size or even my 50 footer which will be around 5000kg dry and 8000kg wet

Dave

[Cat2sail]

Several comments on different threads.
Weight - EU standards include weight of full fuel and water, max certified crew (like ten people in this case) all required safety gear for that many people (big life raft and more) + Food and other supplies for three days for the full crew - they are very strict even insisting on computing the weight of the propane to cook meals etc.

delivery - I just saw three 420 in the water in Les Sables d' Oloone all waiting for the upcoming engine Mods - there were about five in the parking lot of the factory at the same stage #11 is porbably completed up to that stage. I inspected #6 closely - the changes are mostly subtle but to the point. Lagoon will not release these yachts until they are confident all is well with them. The recent passage of #3 around the top of Europe to Dussledorf provided more rather trying testing.

Speed -these will never be race boats but are quite compfortable at 8 - 10 knots in 15 to 20 kts wind...don't know max downwind speeds with the gennaker.

[Intentional Drifter]

Cat2sail --

I'd be interested in your more detailed impressions of the boat.

ID

[Moby Dick]

Just a thought - shouldn't you guys set up your own website for Lagoon420 owners? I am sure there will be many post-delivery issues you will want to sort out amongst yourselves...

[Don K.]

Cat2Sail,

can you give some details on the modifications?
Do I understand that they delivered No. 3 to Dusseldorf with a electrical system still not fully functioning?

[Don K.]

Moby Dick,

basically a good idea, especially once our vessels are afloat...
But who is going to take the hassle to set it up and keep it running...

[Vasco]

Don K,

When I bought my new boat there was no owners group for that model. I started a Yahoo Group and the thing runs itself. Very little input required. Only thing I did was filch a few email addresses from other sites and send out invitationsto start the ball rolling. Over 300 members now.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by Cat2sail

Several comments on different threads.
Weight - EU standards include weight of full fuel and water, max certified crew (like ten people in this case) all required safety gear for that many people (big life raft and more) + Food and other supplies for three days for the full crew - they are very strict even insisting on computing the weight of the propane to cook meals etc.

Speed -these will never be race boats but are quite compfortable at 8 - 10 knots in 15 to 20 kts wind...don't know max downwind speeds with the gennaker.

Lagoon 42 weight

empty 24692 lb or 11200 kg

loaded 31813 lb or 14430 kg


Lagoon 50

empty 41500 lb or 18820 kg.

no loaded weight shown.

Doesn't this make you wonder why these are so heavy ?

If one can build a 50 ft cat out of heavy timber composite that will weigh around 5000 kg empty and around 8000kg loaded, surely these Lagoons should be lighter.

After all they use all the so called best techniques like Vac bag, and resin infusion and foam sandwich.

I just can't understand where in the 50 footer's case the extra 13,800kg comes into it on an empty boat compared to mine, and in the 42 footer case an extra 6725kg compared to say a Schionning 1320 [44 foot] at 4475kg empty.

Now sure my hulls wont cary as much as the Lagoon 50 and the Schionning wont carry as much as the Lagoon 43, but surely making the boat a bit fatter to increase load carrying capacity doesnt add more than a whole extra boat's worth of materials and weight.


Dave

[Jeff]

The Lagoon Owner's Group on Yahoo is pretty active and has expressed interest in keeping the L420 owners there.

j

[Whimsical]

Cat I think a lot of it comes from the fit out with veneered plys, solid timbers and other heavy materials instead of things like "Featherlight" glass panels.
I know a guy who built a 55 foot mono stink boat. He spent 25 ton on the fit out without propulsion but it did have granite bench tops. Had two 1200 hp MTUs to shift its arse and he whinges about the fuel bill -DUH.
Some people prefer form over function.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by Whimsical

Cat I think a lot of it comes from the fit out with veneered plys, solid timbers and other heavy materials instead of things like "Featherlight" glass panels.

Our boat is specificaly designed not to use featherlight panels or similar.

It was taken into account that non-exotics would be used.

All furniture and bulkheads are 12mm, 9mm and 6mm marine ply with Solid timber features.

Hulls and cabin are 16mm timber core, she's no lightweight and if I had a bigger budget we could save a fair bit of weight.

Dave