400: Lagoon 400 Technical Notice - Nacelle Drainage

[tuskie]

Originally Posted by AZ_Zoner

We had the repair work done last week. When the tech was done he told us that we were dry and no moisture was ever present. Big relief!


Craig

That's good news. Whew!

Did he use a torch and inspect the main bulkhead for signs of water damage from inside the boat? Easiest access is via port forward cabin wall opening looking behind the water pump and red accumulator to the area below and beside the water pipe entry hole in bulkhead.
If drain holes are correctly positioned and no water escaped, and there is no sign of water damage to your bulkhead, then you are in the clear.

[AZ_Zoner]

He did inspect inside, behind the bulkhead and forward of the bulkhead in the chain locker. I believe it is all good for us.

Craig


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[mayanman]

o.k here whats going on under 400 lagoon water tank...

i will list some more

[mayanman]

more 400 pics

[mayanman]

picture under water tank

[mayanman]

photos under a Lagoon water tank

[mayanman]

under a lagoon 400 water tank

[tuskie]

Thanks Mayanman, great photos of a "not so great" situation.

What materials did you use to repair? Ply and epoxy? My shipwright suggested fabricating a solid fiberglass shelf.

[feebs]

So Lagoon have suggested that these 4 holes will drain nacelle area, as it continues to take on water. I believe in solving one problem, it has created another, in that the 2 centre holes have been drilled through wood, which will have a constant trickle of water draining through untreated or unprotected wood. So for those without any wood rot now, over time this will be an issue - do others agree with me?


Wouldn't it be better to ascertain how water is entering this area & stop its ingress....



Any thoughts?


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[rabbi]

Originally Posted by feebs

So Lagoon have suggested that these 4 holes will drain nacelle area, as it continues to take on water. I believe in solving one problem, it has created another, in that the 2 centre holes have been drilled through wood, which will have a constant trickle of water draining through untreated or unprotected wood. So for those without any wood rot now, over time this will be an issue - do others agree with me?


Wouldn't it be better to ascertain how water is entering this area & stop its ingress....



Any thoughts?


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If I had a 400 I would certainly not do this fix without protecting the wood (drill big hole, fill with epoxy, then drill small hole through epoxy). Or at least use some good sealant.
If you don't seal you will infrequenly get limited amounts of moisture into the wood around the holes. These will do some local damage over time but certainly far less than the constant moisture trapped inside as it is now.
But if you add a constant supply of fresh water, like a dripping tank fitting, you will get rot.


Looks like this is an issue that a typical pre-purchase survey will not pick up, as it requires dismantling of access panels (which surveyors typically don't do). Bad ...

[arsenelupiga]

my view is there is around 3cm of wood below the hole. After that fiberglass.

Worst that can happen is these 3 cm of wood will completely rot. I do not see any structural issues with that except bit of cosmetic. And if that happens one can clean rot and fill with something that does not rot. Or just do this now, remove wood and replace with plastic.

[neil28163]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

my view is there is around 3cm of wood below the hole. After that fiberglass.

Worst that can happen is these 3 cm of wood will completely rot. I do not see any structural issues with that except bit of cosmetic. And if that happens one can clean rot and fill with something that does not rot. Or just do this now, remove wood and replace with plastic.

I have just drilled the holes in my 400, water drained for more than 10mins. What worries me, is that after that, I used my volume pump to extract almost another 6ltrs still sitting below the holes , which will never drain away. The source of the ingress is a priority to resolve, this knee-jerk reaction by Lagoon is not a cure for the faulty design and needs to be addressed by them with some urgency. How can we all contact Lagoon direct and apply some pressure, I'm sure that they would not want this to get in the public domain using various subscribed publications.

[arsenelupiga]

Source are leaking windows.

We had start of leakage exactly on the day when hailed. I was on the boat. sikaflex gave up around 1 window in 1 spot due to sudden temp change & strong wind - simply compressed - and left water in. I saw that and said to myself. easy know where to fix now. Problem was that after all gone I could not locate source of that fix at all. It all looked perfect again.

Except starboard widow started squeaking. Found little water flowing under main bathroom sink, left draw, remove bottom.

We fixed leak, no more water. So, hoping no more new water.

There may be other sources of water though.

If I am right that water in the void will be eventually gone.

Forgot to add: i was smelling rot after that event until leak fixed.

Also, I introduced new practice of airing belly of the boat. Open window in front bedroom, close door of bedroom, remove front cover on both sides and in some wind when anchored, strong wind blows thru underside. That should help with drying process.

[mayanman]

Below are question i have sent to a broker by email on a boat I am negotiating on......

If anyone with knowledge about boats would give there thoughts I would appreciate it...

Am i CRAZY are any of my concerns justified...? do not worry you wont hurt my feelings... The mast goes right above and through the area that all this rot is...


I just want you to understand where I or other buyer may be coming from. Some buyers may not understand This could be a recurring problem every 4-5 years. If water keeps getting in there.

I think that you may be correct about the repair being done correctly.

Does anyone know how the water is getting in there..? Lagoon must know..?

I noticed the drainage holes that Lagoon recommends have not been done yet?.. does that mean water is collecting again behind the bulkhead..?


However i think the concern a lot of buyers looking at the 400 Lagoons are having is that yes the bulkhead rot can be repaired, But will it occur again and again.

Initially i was thinking it was from the hatch for compartment. Most info says its coming down between the front windows because the seal is failed. Also the Lagoon fix. still leaves a fair amount of water in that area after drainage holes are drilled. It does NOT fully drain .. thus the concern is every 5 years you will have this same situation where water rots the core material and the fiberglass will need to be repaired.

If in 2 years it starts to rot again and UNNOTICED while at sea you could have a complete failure of the mast in seas and wind could be potentially dangerous.

[tuskie]

Originally Posted by neil28163

I have just drilled the holes in my 400, water drained for more than 10mins. What worries me, is that after that, I used my volume pump to extract almost another 6ltrs still sitting below the holes , which will never drain away. The source of the ingress is a priority to resolve, this knee-jerk reaction by Lagoon is not a cure for the faulty design and needs to be addressed by them with some urgency. How can we all contact Lagoon direct and apply some pressure, I'm sure that they would not want this to get in the public domain using various subscribed publications.

I think that "the word is already out"!

What remains to be seen is how Lagoon deals with this issue.

Thanks Neil, you have confirmed what I thought; that the Lagoon "fix" of simply drilling 4 holes is totally inadequate. Firstly, as you have demonstrated, the drain holes do not properly drain the water from the nacelle. The 6 litres of fresh water that doesn't drain, if in constant contact with incorrectly sealed timber will continue to promote rot.

Secondly, and most importantly, the "fix" does not address the rot that has already occurred. This will continue and progressively weaken the hull structure of the boat, drain holes or no drain holes.

A proper fix requires all rotten and wet timber to be removed and replaced with dry, glassed in materials. During the rebuilding phase, drain holes can be drilled and sealed in the correct position for complete drainage. Anything less is inadequate.

Has anyone had Lagoon perform a proper fix for this issue?