450: Just signed on a new 450s!

[davedindubai]

The bbq is from ENO and it’s fitted with a plancha hot plate. I love it. We’ve even cooked paella in it

[davedindubai]

I thought I’d do an Air Con update:

We had our air con fitted last June while we were in Miami but as it’s only just warmed up in Europe, we’ve only just found a need to run it. It’s all of a sudden red hot in Greece and with absolutely no breeze of a night being at anchor is no help. It’s regularly over 30 inside the boat with all the windows open and the shades up outside.

When we had the AC installed you may remember I had the master cabin unit wired so that we can run it on inverter and this was such a great move. Our 840ah LA’s are at 100% by the evening and as I make water/heat water under genset early evening they’re fully topped up and I’ve used that genset power to chill the boat too. This means that by the time we go to bed we can run our AC all night on batteries. I set the thermostat at 25c which the unit can maintain no probs and running for around 6 hours uses approx 250ah including the other typical boat loads.

If we had 800ah of lithium I think we could run the 2 guest cabins AC too so watch this space.

I’d like to plug Mabru in Miami again as they’ve been great. I had a problem last week and the customer service couldn’t be better. I had a Skype call for 20 mins with the owner to diagnose the issue! Good work Mabru!

[davedindubai]

Hi Gooners!

I've just discovered "profile comments" and as I was completely unaware that this method of communication existed there are unanswered questions from 2 years ago! Apologies for not replying but in my defense, I do reply to Facebook messages, Instagram messages, thread comments, emails and I try to reply to every youtube comment we get also.

If people would like Lagoon advice then please keep your questions "in thread" because you'll most likely get a more seasoned response from one of the other experienced Gooners and others will benefit from the answers given.

So here's some questioned that I've copied and pasted:

a - We are spec-ing out our 450S and want to get the "Code 0 rig & pole" option which we understand includes the bowsprit/pole and the cockpit winches. What else comes with this package? Specifically are there reinforced attachment points like padeyes added aft to use with blocks to turn the Code 0 sheets toward the winches? Are these attachment points located in solid glass sections with backing plates?
c - Do any blocks, sheets, or other items come with the Code 0 option?
d - Regarding Wingaker rigging, do bow padeyes come standard with all 450's, or only come with the "Code 0" option, or only come with the "Asymmetric Spinaker Gear" option? If they do not come standard or with the Code 0 option, I will put them on myself (and I understand that there may be some foam filler material in the way to remove before accessing that part of the hull)
e - How many halyards come with the boat in total when including the Code 0 option? 3 or 4?

and

1 - Is it true that the 450F can come from the factory with bow padeyes but not the 450S? If so, why?
2 - On the 450S where do you run your guys? Also back to the cockpit sheet winches with double jammer? If not, where?
3 - Would it make sense to add reinforced cleats to the bows instead of padeyes to serve double purpose of attaching blocks and attaching to mooring balls?
4 - How do you get at the underside of the bows forward of the bulkhead? Is it foam filled?
5 - Is it smart to add a jammer forward of the windlass to handle the downhaul on a bowsprit mounted headsail like a Code 0?

I will have a proper read thru this lot and answer everything when I get back from my 6 hour dive... I'm at work! Back later.

[davedindubai]

Answers to the above:

a: yes, there are blocks for the spinnaker sheets but with only washers behind and they will need backing plates installing by yourself.

c: we didn't get the code 0 option, we got the spinnaker option which included everything but we only got a single fall halyard.

d: Our 450S didn't come with bow padeyes (there is a deck space for them) and the bows are foam filled and glassed in which will need removing to fit backing plates for a padeye.

e: 3 halyards. Main, Genoa, Spinnaker.

1: Quite possibly. No idea and it's very annoying.

2: I think this is referring to a Parasailer or Wingaker and as we don't have one, I'm not sure but it's certainly not as easy as on the F.

3: Cleats on the bows would be nice but I've never found it necessary. I use the ones on the sides for mooring balls / mooring lines in a marina.

4: Yes, our bows are foam filled but that doesn't mean all 450's are. I suspect they are not or possibly to different depths frm fore to aft.

5: Yes, a jammer for the spinnaker is a great idea (been on my job list for 2 years) but our code zero is made to measure and I tension it pretty hard with a 2:1 halyard so I wouldn't use it for this.

I hope these answers are of some help.

Dave

[RSH]

Originally Posted by davedindubai

I thought I’d do an Air Con update:

We had our air con fitted last June while we were in Miami but as it’s only just warmed up in Europe, we’ve only just found a need to run it. It’s all of a sudden red hot in Greece and with absolutely no breeze of a night being at anchor is no help. It’s regularly over 30 inside the boat with all the windows open and the shades up outside.

When we had the AC installed you may remember I had the master cabin unit wired so that we can run it on inverter and this was such a great move. Our 840ah LA’s are at 100% by the evening and as I make water/heat water under genset early evening they’re fully topped up and I’ve used that genset power to chill the boat too. This means that by the time we go to bed we can run our AC all night on batteries. I set the thermostat at 25c which the unit can maintain no probs and running for around 6 hours uses approx 250ah including the other typical boat loads.

If we had 800ah of lithium I think we could run the 2 guest cabins AC too so watch this space.

I’d like to plug Mabru in Miami again as they’ve been great. I had a problem last week and the customer service couldn’t be better. I had a Skype call for 20 mins with the owner to diagnose the issue! Good work Mabru!

How did you get the ac to run that way? Do you have a soft start system on it? What's the size of your inverter? We have 700 watts of solar and a 3k inverter and I am wondering how to run the 16k webasto ac unit without a generator...

[davedindubai]

Originally Posted by RSH

How did you get the ac to run that way? Do you have a soft start system on it? What's the size of your inverter? We have 700 watts of solar and a 3k inverter and I am wondering how to run the 16k webasto ac unit without a generator...

I'm afraid I don't think you can. The 16k webasto draws about the same as my 3 units in the cabins.

We've got 1000w solar and the Victron 5000 inverter.

[DK2]

I have Mabru installed units for AC too and like you they installed them to run off the inverter. When we run the genset we can run all three units, make water, do a load of washing and still charge the 900 ah of lithium. No soft starts needed with this configuration - a 16k, a 12k and a 6k BTU.

[CatPeople]

We are owners of a soon-to-be delivered 450S (#126) coming from the factory to the US East Coast in August. I have a long project list and many of them are already discussed in this long and informative thread. Of course the majority of my projects require me to get on the boat, but in the meantime I can plan and order parts! I want to hook up the engines into the NMEA 2000 network. For anyone who has done that, whose wiring harness did you buy and why? There are two that I know of; Maretron's J1939 gateway and Yacht Devices. It looks like the YD would be a lot less money. Any advice? And once the interface is installed, what can you do for configuration and display with the B&G Zeus unit? Is it relatively straighforward or do you need additional software (and gateway) to properly configure it (like YD's CAN Log Viewer)? Thanks

[davedindubai]

Originally Posted by CatPeople

We are owners of a soon-to-be delivered 450S (#126) coming from the factory to the US East Coast in August. I have a long project list and many of them are already discussed in this long and informative thread. Of course the majority of my projects require me to get on the boat, but in the meantime I can plan and order parts! I want to hook up the engines into the NMEA 2000 network. For anyone who has done that, whose wiring harness did you buy and why? There are two that I know of; Maretron's J1939 gateway and Yacht Devices. It looks like the YD would be a lot less money. Any advice? And once the interface is installed, what can you do for configuration and display with the B&G Zeus unit? Is it relatively straighforward or do you need additional software (and gateway) to properly configure it (like YD's CAN Log Viewer)? Thanks

You must be super excited that your boat will be there soon!

I've got all the Yacht Devices parts already! I bought everything last Xmas and still haven't got round to installing it. I've also gone for the wifi gateway so it's all viewable on the iPad pro as this is at the helm all the time anyway. When I've installed it, I'll do a full write up here but you may beat me to it. If so, please help us out here.

ps. the Zues will display all the engine info right away as it all comes from the yanmars and it's all set ready to receive the info.

[RSH]

Originally Posted by davedindubai

I'm afraid I don't think you can. The 16k webasto draws about the same as my 3 units in the cabins.

We've got 1000w solar and the Victron 5000 inverter.

Ah, no worries. A generator is on our to-do list for 2020. Right now we're not off the hook enough to have constant ac be a priority.

Originally Posted by DK2

I have Mabru installed units for AC too and like you they installed them to run off the inverter. When we run the genset we can run all three units, make water, do a load of washing and still charge the 900 ah of lithium. No soft starts needed with this configuration - a 16k, a 12k and a 6k BTU.

That's probably where we're headed-run them off of a generator. We might still get a soft start since I've heard that it makes for a quieter start, and both our units are located under our beds in the cabins. Our 380 does not have the space that the 450's have, so we had to compromise getting the cool where we'd need it most and giving up a little quiet.

[Pascals Wager]

Previous post about bow pad eyes, just cut out the Sika and you can insert the backing plate and nuts without too much hassle.
Also the Clutch for the bowsprit down haul, this photo is my neighbours F50 as setup from Lagoon. And yes the bridle is rigged incorrectly...

[CatPeople]

Pascals,


Is the bow padeye deck area cored or solid glass? The padeye deck area is a riser over the plane of the deck itself, so it is extra thick too?



I plan to back the padeye with a 6 mm thick piece of G10 board rather than washers alone. Can you think of any issues that would make this harder than it sounds (e.g. I am assuming the the area under the padeye is flat and flush with the plane of the underside (and not cupped) and that there is enough clearance to get plate, washers, nuts, and my hands into the space behind the Sika sealant.



I also think it might be a good idea to put a stronger backing plate behind the padeyes that hold the bowsprit bobstays to the insides of the hulls. I have some concerns about the stress on these two attachment points (and hull) with a large Code up under stronger winds and gusts.


Thanks,


Charlie (CatPeople)

[Pascals Wager]

Originally Posted by CatPeople

Pascals,


Is the bow padeye deck area cored or solid glass? The padeye deck area is a riser over the plane of the deck itself, so it is extra thick too?



I plan to back the padeye with a 6 mm thick piece of G10 board rather than washers alone. Can you think of any issues that would make this harder than it sounds (e.g. I am assuming the the area under the padeye is flat and flush with the plane of the underside (and not cupped) and that there is enough clearance to get plate, washers, nuts, and my hands into the space behind the Sika sealant.



I also think it might be a good idea to put a stronger backing plate behind the padeyes that hold the bowsprit bobstays to the insides of the hulls. I have some concerns about the stress on these two attachment points (and hull) with a large Code up under stronger winds and gusts.


Thanks,


Charlie (CatPeople)

The bow pad eye area is raised so not solid deck. From memory it was all glass, it is flat underneath. I backed then with a 5mm thick stainless round plate and made it slightly smaller in diameter than the flat top to allow for the deck thickness. Once you cut away the silicon there is room for spanner etc. Bolt length long enough to properly secure, too long and you can't get the nut over. I also backed the whisker stay padeyes on the hull too. My area inside the hull wasn't that flat so needed some custom shaping of the backing. 6mm Stainless on those. All plates had slightly rounded edges to avoid stress focus.

[CatNewBee]

I have glued my 6mm round stainless backing plates under to the hull with Sikaflex, this distributes the pessure to the whole area and also watertights thes crews.

[davedindubai]

Hey all,

I'm lifting Susan Ann II out for the first time in December and have a list of jobs to do, if you can think of anything else that I should be doing then please let me know. She'll be out of the water for 5 months without us onboard so need to prep the boat for winter and spring in Greece.

Can be done in the water:
drop and store genoa
pull all halyards up to top of mast
add diesel additive
service engines and genny
muriatic acid all toilet pipework
empty all 4 fresh water tanks, add milton
drain hot water tank
pickle water maker
full spring clean inside with bleach
defrost and bleach freezer, leave open
bleach fridge, leave open
WD40 all thru hulls
WD40 engines and generator
WD40 steering components
dry bilges
lift mattresses
top up batteries
dehumidify whole boat

On the hard:
fresh water / glycol flush both engines
fresh water / glycol flush generator
fresh water / glycol flush AC units
repair copper coat under keels
antifoul sail drives
propspeed props
lower anchor chain onto a pallet and clean

I plan to leave all internal doors and cupboard doors open, the 2 most aft fans on low and a dehumidifier running in the saloon on shore power.

I'm pretty sure I've decided to leave all the clear surrounds up. They've been in place for 2 and a half years now and I think they'll be better left up than rolled or folder all winter.

If anyone has any other jobs I've missed, I'll write up the final list and post it here.

All the best, Dave