450: Electrical overhaul notes

[rspott]

I am putting these notes here as Facebook does not alway work well for searching or archives.

I am in the last part of a power upgrade on my 2015 L450F. I'll start with some pictures and schematics.

We were the former owners of Waponi Woo (an 06 FP Lavezzi) and sailed from Seattle, WA to Jacksonville, FL over 4 years. My wife drives these things, I only know how to sail when told what to do. We sold Waponi Woo in Jacksonville about a year ago. Waponi-Woo (search for "geek" and the power and communications systems will be displayed to you.)

We now own a 2015 L450F: S/V Fizzgig, a 240VAC 50Hz EU boat.

We are in the US so I needed to support dual voltages/frequencies.

In the past few months we have added and changed quite a few things. The schematic attached has details as does this text.

Details, pictures, more schematics etc are available if you like them.

1. swapped out the AGM batteries for a 122KWh (960AH @12.8V) Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery battery pack.
2. added 2x 3600W Isolation transformers
3. swapped out the masscombi inverter-charger for a 5KW @240VAC Victron Quattro inverter-charger.
4. swapped out the mastervolt 60A solar charger for a Victron 150/35 MPPT charger.
5. added a 120VAC 3000W inverter to supply 120VAC loads.
6. added a 120VAC electrical panel for 120VAC loads.
7. added a victron cerbo GX to monitor and control the system.
8. swapped out the candy washer-dryer with a Splendide (the candy died.. and was dumb!)
9. added an autostart device to the Onan genset to allow the victron cerbo system to start and stop the generator on demand.
10. swapped the 220VAC microwave with a new 120VAC microwave (the old one died)
11. a custom hot water circulator to prevent the waste of water when the owners side wants a hot shower.
12. installed the head unit for a KVH communications system in the electronics area.

---

In the next few weeks we will be adding:

1. Wakespeed 500 alternator controllers to keep the alternators safe.
2. 2000-2250 Watts of solar on a custom rack based on

   Scott Doran’s S/V Muskoka design

3. KVH dome on the above solar rack.
4. cell phone repeater/amplifier.
5. replaced all start batteries (gen-set/port-start/end-start)

All of these systems have been installed and designed so a power or electronics geek does not need to be onboard to operate them

[AndrewA2]

AWESOME !!!!

I am just starting to head down this very path myself.
Curious how you terminated the 110v lines? did you install US type sockets?
I think that is what i am going to do . Leave the EU 220v circuit intact, but scatter US 110v sockets on dedicated circuits.

Assume all the Victron gear talks to each other, any gains/advantages you noticed from this?

Do you have a photo of the 110v breaker panel (would love to see how it fits in with your existing setup!).

Definitely following this

[rspott]

Originally Posted by AndrewA2

AWESOME !!!!

I am just starting to head down this very path myself.
Curious how you terminated the 110v lines? did you install US type sockets?
I think that is what i am going to do . Leave the EU 220v circuit intact, but scatter US 110v sockets on dedicated circuits.

Assume all the Victron gear talks to each other, any gains/advantages you noticed from this?

Do you have a photo of the 110v breaker panel (would love to see how it fits in with your existing setup!).

Definitely following this

The 240VAC consumers were left alone (Watermaker, dishwasher, HVAC units etc). They run off the existing 240VAC panel in the 'technical room' on the starboard side of the boat. All 240VAC power runs through the 5KW inverter charger.

The air-con can bypass the inverter from shore if needed. I find I can use the air-con on inverter if needed.

The 120VAC consumers are:

1. House outlets (guests and myself plugging in chargers or small appliances)
2. Microwave (Rated at 12A but I have not seen that)
3. Splendide Washer/Dryer (rated for 10.5A but I have not seen that yet)
4. The overall 110 subpanel is protected by a 25A fuse.

I used 10A fuses in my 120VAC @60Hz sub-panel as the existing AC wiring on the boat was 16AWG and 14AWG. None of the loads individually should use more than that.

We installed all Victron on our previous boat outside the battery pack. I took great pride in that anyone was able to tell, at a glance, what was going on with power generation and consumption. I don't like 3 page handwritten instructions of "twiddle this and shake that" to get basic things like power.

I really like the remote VRM system that Victron provides. The remote control has saved our bacon a few times.

[Tin Tin]

An investment in electrical gear for sure, what was the cost, did you pay electricians to do it or DIY?

[rspott]

All DIY.

[AndrewA2]

Do you have a switch between the AGM's to main circuit?
Assume they are connected to get solar charged? if so any concerns they will drain feeding the house circuit?

[s/v Jedi]

There were no problems running the 230V/50Hz appliances (A/C, dive compressor, washer etc.) on 240V/60Hz?

[AndrewA2]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

There were no problems running the 230V/50Hz appliances (A/C, dive compressor, washer etc.) on 240V/60Hz?

Most appliances will have a tolerance on volts ie 220-240, but not all tolerate Hz variance .... Assume that is the real question ?

[rspott]

Originally Posted by AndrewA2

Most appliances will have a tolerance on volts ie 220-240, but not all tolerate Hz variance .... Assume that is the real question ?

You do take a chance when running 220-240VAC/50Hz equipment on 120VAC/60Hz. It can be trial and (expensive) error.

These are the 220VAC appliances that are running @ 60Hz:

1. Ice Maker
2. Dishwasher
3. Watermaker
4. Hot Water Heater
5. Air Conditioners

The dive compressor is not yet hooked up and will run off gen-set power exclusively so I am not terribly worried about it.

They all appear to be running properly. The Air-con units do run faster when they are on shore power compared to pure inverter or gen-set (50Hz).

[rspott]

Originally Posted by AndrewA2

Do you have a switch between the AGM's to main circuit?
Assume they are connected to get solar charged? if so any concerns they will drain feeding the house circuit?

There is no switch outside the factory christec isolators, so the AGMs will charge to a lower voltage than they need. They will get charged via the alternators only. I am not worried at this point about discharge to the house side.

In my last boat I did not have separate start batteries. I am using the AGM as a shock absorber in the case that the BMS shuts down charging during an alternator run period. (cheap alternator saver) The AGMs bought may die an earlier death but it is a small matter to me at the moment.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by rspott

There is no switch outside the factory christec isolators, so the AGMs will charge to a lower voltage than they need. They will get charged via the alternators only. I am not worried at this point about discharge to the house side.

In my last boat I did not have separate start batteries. I am using the AGM as a shock absorber in the case that the BMS shuts down charging during an alternator run period. (cheap alternator saver) The AGMs bought may die an earlier death but it is a small matter to me at the moment.

I do that as well. When I leave the boat for more than a couple days, the AGM is the only one on-line, with the expensive batteries safely disconnected

[rspott]

S/V Jedi, were you in Shelter Bay in 2018?

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by rspott

S/V Jedi, were you in Shelter Bay in 2018?

Yes, that has been our hangout for more than 10 years I think

We have since moved to Florida but sailing the Bahamas again when they open borders

[rspott]

Ah! We were there for some time on a 40' Lavezzi "Waponi Woo" next to Caroline and Bill's Lavezzi in the back.

[s/v Jedi]

I wasn’t gonna post this but think it’s important for other readers if not for the OP who already finished the project.

I recommend a slightly different setup for the AC part, see attached diagram. The main difference is that there are two identical inverter/chargers instead of different ones and they are switched differently, which allows not only frequency conversion but also full redundancy and different load-groups.

Example: to run a 50Hz boat on 60Hz shore power, close input breaker for inverter/charger 1 but open it for #2 (or the other way around as they are identical). Now put the selector switches for the load groups to unit #2. What happens is that #1 takes 60Hz power to charge the batteries while #2 is inverting to create the 50Hz power used aboard.

With big alternators you can use a dedicated inverter/charger to power a watermaker in case of genset failure

You can bypass inverter/chargers which feature will often be used for the A/C and water heater load group but is available for every group in case of emergency or unforeseen circumstances.

Everything is either 230/240V and for boats that want 120V as well, the auto transformer is used for one load group. 50Hz boats don’t need that at all.