General Info: Gel Coat Blisters Above the Water Line

[alexxx]

thanxx sailr69

[minaret]

Originally Posted by alexxx

Thanks Cheechako, but to acertain that is not an easy task.
I'm french, many of those cat makers are in france, I can easily go to any of the factories. I wonder if during the construction process of my boat, i could bring in a good surveyor to double check that everything is done to high standard? Is that something that has been done before? i wonder if a manufacturer would allow it...

This is something which is commonly done with high end custom and semi custom factory built boats. A third party is almost always involved. Any builder who is unwilling to do this should be highly suspect. I know at least one surveyor who specializes in project oversight. Make sure your contract is ironclad first, or this will likely lead to many change orders and much added expense. I have seen too many cooks spoil the stew before, but on the other hand given what I've seen I wouldn't just hand over all my money to someone to build a boat unsupervised either. That's just asking to get screwed.

[alexxx]

thank you, MINARET, i did not know it was commonly done.. It's brilliant that we have cruisers forums like this where we can support one another with information and experiences. If you were willing to send me a private message with a name and contact of on or two such surveyors, i would really appreciate it. I will do my own research as well , of course. We pay such an amount of money for new cats, and it would be propostrous indeed that a cat maker would not allow a buyer's own surveyour to come and check the quality of the work. Thanks again.
Merci.

[Le Doume]

Originally Posted by alexxx

Thanks Cheechako, but to acertain that is not an easy task.
I'm french, many of those cat makers are in france, I can easily go to any of the factories. I wonder if during the construction process of my boat, i could bring in a good surveyor to double check that everything is done to high standard? Is that something that has been done before? i wonder if a manufacturer would allow it...

Hi Alexxx
I am french too although an expat living down under, I have just spent 6 weeks back home looking to upgrade ( I own a Lavezzi) and in the process I visited Privilege ,Nautitec & Outremer, I have settled on the new Outremer 5X , as far as having a third party check the construction process , Bureau Veritas can do this for you ( at a substential cost) as this would involved at least four vist and any problems would need to be rectified prior to moving on to the next stage , in the end you do get a certificate and a plaque affixed to the baot showing that it is Veritas certified .
I have found the team at Outremer an absolute pleasure to deal with , mind you one as to keep in mind that once the boat leaves the factory the common practice is to then deal with the distributor ( you mention Porsches in another post) , if you have a problem with your car surely you do not contact the factory direct .
I know that the Outremer network is not very well develloped here in OZ , but as I will sail the boat on the med for the first 6 months I have been assured that should I have any issues , the factory would ask me to bring the boat back to La Grande Motte to fix any waranty problem and a " Loan Boat" would be provided to ensure that my cruise is not too disrupted.
I guess that any major issue such as Hydrolisis encountered by FP have been looked into and addressed by other manufacturers as the only way to fix it is to ensure that it does not occur during the fabrication process.
It all depends what you are looking for in a catamaran , ( horses for courses) I did like the Catanas and the Nautitecs but the position of the helming stations did not suit me at all . I went for the outremer because I wanted a fast cruising cat and my intention is to sail back to OZ in 2015.

Au plaisir

Happy hunting

[alexxx]

Mais Oui... Le Bureau Veritas, of course.... totally forgot about their existence.... When an older acquintance of mine used to work in the private jet airline business, custom made aircraft interiors etc., they were actually good and tough to deal with sometimes. Thanks for that, "Véritas" is a great tip of course... I'm not familiar with Outremer yet, but i'll get to be more familiar with them now that i've heard what you've got to say about them.
Semi-racing cats, like the Catanas, no.... not for me..... it'll have to be something in between the sheer pleasure of navigating the boat through the seas, and the comfort of the boat itself, BUT it's seaworthiness will need to be nr ONE, with risks of early hydrolysis/osmisis brought down to NIL, with whatever i need to do for it to be assured. It's just beyond me to even imagine that more than a few of our mates here on this forum coughed out 400,000 euros or more for a new FP boat, and then they had to put up with the issues and the nightmare of this magnitude, with a stock market rated manufacturer, who seems to give no damn whatsoever in their after-sales attitude towards their clients.
It's really nice to hear what you say about Outremer, i also heard numerous positive - allbeit imperfect - comments about Lagoon's after-sales approach. At least they answer emails and return the phone calls. I'll take my time to choose, and of course i'll charter several cats before i pick one to buy.
I hope FP start realising how fast the word of mouth goes, and how very very small and demanding the cat' cruisers' world really is .
Encore merci, and safe sailing !

[DotDun]

I'm not defending FP actions wrt Dragon Lady.

But, I'm curious what level of support do people expect on a boat that is owned by second/third owner and is past the warranty period?

I would doubt that FP engineers have very much knowledge fixing blisters. I would be looking for someone with gelcoat/fiberglass blister experience.

Just IMO, of course!

[muskoka]

FP paid for the repairs to our boat in 2011. The boat was built in 2004 and we are the second owners. We did claim within the 5 year period and they were slow getting us the money but they did come through and on that basis I have no complaints at all with how FP dealt with this issue. FP came through.

To all prospective purchasers of all boats I'd recommend pushing the manufacturer to transfer the warranty. It's amazing how persuasive an original owner can be when he realizes the sale of his 2 year old boat will fall through because the manufacturer won't honour their own 5 year warranty.

This whole notion that a 5 year warranty won't be honoured for anyone but the original owner is B.S. The industry should be ashamed of this sleazy dodging of their responsibility.

Cheers

[Dragon Lady]

Well just for the record I was first offered a ten year warranty on the boat when I inquired about the boat, which was then knocked down to two years from the date of the repairs on the boat. This was backed up by a written two year warranty certificated signed by Mr F himself!
When I asked FP for clarification of any limitations or conditions on the warranty for the specific boat I was buying I was sent a copy of the standard FP warranty for new boats.
When I told FP about the new blisters, they then replied that as they were above the water line and I was not the original owner they were unable to honor my claim on the warranty, however they would be happy to offer technical advice on how to fix the boat.
I must say the Australian agents were very helpful even though they had not sold me the boat.
So from my part I only expected what was offered to me and I have never demanded anything else.
FP have a lot of experience repairing osmosis blistering and as boat builder it is not unreasonable to expect them to support their product for the life of that product.
These boats are not throw away expendable items, they are major assets to who owns them regardless of the financial wealth of that enterty.

A customer of any boat builder deserves better than the way FP treats it's clients regardless of how many boats they buy and how old they are.

Just look at Seawind if want to know how to treat customers.

Those of you whom have been treated well or have not had to make a claim on your FP warranty consider yourselves very lucky indeed.

[muskoka]

That's pretty shabby. I agree that they should stand behind their product, especially when it is clear that this is a manufacturing defect.

[alexxx]

especially when one forks out THAT (!!!!!!!!!!) amount of money to buy a new catamaran !!!!! it just bemuses me that there actually are issues with the product, AND with the follow up!!

[Cotemar]

Should never see this problem in the future now that FP uses a vinylester skin coat to helps prevent blisters.

[Le Doume]

Hi Alexx

It took me a while to finally decide on a Manufacturer and a model as this is probably the last boat that I am purchasing , Outremer and Catanas were the last two on my elimination process and Catana lost out due to the helming positions. I am NO longer a racer but wanted a fast Catamaran for cruising so that we could move from one location to another as quickly as possible .
It was extremely refreshing to meet with the team in the " bureau d'etudes" at Outremer as each boat can be " tailored made" for the new owner as long as this does not involve any structural changes.
Bureau Veritas offers a great service and liaise with the manufacturer once the deal is made and at the end of the process a certification plate is affixed to the boat , so it is a peace of mind for the owner.
I have had enough sail boats throughout my life to know that it is NOT an investment but at least one would want to get REAL value for one's money regardless on how many zeros are on the " fracture"
Best of luck with your research and final choice .

A ++++

[Dragon Lady]

Just though I would like to post an update on my osmosis issue.
I slipped my boat this week and there are no blisters below the water line after 3 years so the FP repair is holding up.
Last year I punctured most of the blisters that are above the waterline and now a year latter they appear to be dry. I have started using a small rotary burr to grind out the blisters and are filling them with a gel coat filler.
It is still all an ongoing experiment but if it continues to work out I should able to repair the blisters a bit at a time when the boat is up on the slip each year.
I have elected not to apply any water or solvents to the area and am relying on the grinding to leave a clean bonding area.
The boat yard is very helpful and think this is the way to go after doing several other FPs which were done under warranty.
Eventually I will get the topsides painted in two pack and hopefully that will be the end of it.
Anyway I hope this gives some comfort to other owners who may be facing the same issue and wondering what they can do.
I will give an update on how it goes.

[wongai64]

I realise that this is an older post .. but I've just been dealing with my own issues with the same problem .. solution .. stripped back to glass .. above waterline .. Q CELL filler and 3 x epoxy layers over the lot .. then Primed with 3 layers epoxy before antifoul .. should last a few years

[Dragon Lady]

Good luck I hope it works well for you.
My boat has just been up on the slip and it was all good!
There are still some small blisters in the topside from before but all the ones that I have ground and filled are fine.