Challenge: Thinking Outside the Medical Box | Seizure, Perhaps Diabetic

[smurphny]

There is one essential element of first aid that is difficult to carry aboard: common sense. Unfortunately, I have seen more than a few cases (involving EMTs, first-aiders, and especially doctors) where this element has been absent. Common sense sometimes grows with experience but there are people with a long list of credentials that I would not allow to apply a band-aid, no less wrap (trap) me in a Stokes litter to transport off the face of a mountain.

[zeehag]

i found medicine to be 99.5 percent common sense, .5 percent science.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by zeehag

i found medicine to be 99.5 percent common sense, .5 percent science.

Zee, you have years of experience, so what is common sense to you, is a mystery to most, other then perhaps first aid.

It's the science that backs up the common sense that makes it work.

As example, for years it was "common sense" to give someone a shot of whiskey or rum if they were hypothermic in the northern bush.

Reality is that alcohol dilates blood vessels and causes more heat loss. The science overrode the common sense, and most people are now aware of that.

[osirissail]

Right on AVB3 - But please separate out herbal/folk medicine from the mystical. Herbal mixtures have been used for thousands of years and refined by simple process of elimination. If the patient died then try some other herb next time.
- - There is a rich heritage world-wide for natural sources of "medicines" from trees, plants, even sea animals like the hated horseshoe crab. Every major pharm company keeps lots of researchers roaming the forests and mountains and oceans looking for new sources or compounds that will be the next "wonder drug."
- - But for cruisers facing a medical crisis at sea - not in port, but at sea - you only have what is on the boat or that somebody has thoughtfully brought with them. Creative uses of things that would not be normally considered medically helpful in a crisis is the information that would be most valuable to other cruisers.
- - And that includes simple things that you can put on your cruising boat before you leave. A lot of these things are "folk/herbal" medicines. One my Dentist urged my to include is Oil of Cloves. With severe toothache, rub some of that stuff on your gums around the tooth and the pain goes away.

[capngeo]

Whiskey or rum works wonders for a toothache too! (and is more fun)

[zeehag]

as long as the whiskey is after the body heats up is alll goood. he may need it by then. company of others in a bunch of warm blankets is good, soup/broth....sleep with the cat or dog on board. once warmed, then whiskey, etc. or scotch or rum or whathave you.
if a heating pad is required, a cat is perfect temperature, so if is a cat on board, use it well.

is common sense--face pale--raise tale. face red, raise head.
bleeding--push on it to stop it. see--common sense.
need to sew a wound and havent a thread or needle -- use crazy glue carefully. works. dermabond is similar to crazy glue but is used on skin. doesnt sew arterial tears tho.
teeth also--was used on mine when i had some dental work done. my bridge is a temp lasted 5 yrs--is a tooth of my own glued in by dentist.

[osirissail]

Originally Posted by capngeo

Whiskey or rum works wonders for a toothache too! (and is more fun)

Being of "Scottish heritage" we have the same saying about good single malt Scotch. But also, I believe the stuff does nothing for the malady, but after a couple of shots the pain is still there but who gives a damn.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Or one could use Homeopathic Medicine.........(first cast a spell over a bucket of water , for more serious illnesses or a missing limb may need to align your crystals with your Karma ).

That Mitchell and Webb Look: Homeopathic A&E - YouTube

[HDChopper]

Thanks Capngeo for such a great idea for a thread ...

[Ozbullwinkle]

Great thread & having read all of the posts I leant a few valuable new things. However, I just think that a lot of people really overstepped the mark by totally crucifying Mermaid Muse who initially only suggested that trying a few drops of onion juice may work for seizures if you do not have more recommended medications on board like valium. Even capngeo said that he would give it a try if he had nothing else available. All Mermaid Muse suggested was trying onion juice (which most cruisers would have onboard) and no mention was made of any other exotic plants or spells or potions - it was other posters who got off track and went down this path. Guys I think that sometimes it pays to be polite and accept the well meaning suggestions of others before jumping all over them as they really took a beating.

To those who are medically trained my laymans thought is that IF the onion juice in the nostrils did work may it do so by causing the patient to sneeze if administered in the calm period between seizures? Could this interrupt a seizure? (I am aware in this actual case the seizures were due to the cancer affecting the brain) Just a thought, following on from cangeos comment where he wondered what effect it may have & why it possibly was effective?

Eagerly awaiting the next medical scenario.

[osirissail]

Originally Posted by Ozbullwinkle

. . . However, I just think that a lot of people really overstepped the mark by totally crucifying Mermaid Muse who initially only suggested that trying a few drops of onion juice may work for seizures if you do not have more recommended medications on board like valium. Even capngeo said that he would give it a try if he had nothing else available. All Mermaid Muse suggested was trying onion juice (which most cruisers would have onboard) and no mention was made of any other exotic plants or spells or potions -. . .

You must have missed her post #92 where she apparently went off the deep end into mystical medicine and didn't just stay with folk herbal medicine.
- - Folk herbal medicine is the basis of all modern pharmaceutical medicine and is still a great resource for treating conditions when "modern" medicine is just not available.
- - Subsequent posts by others including some quite humorous videos followed to make the difference between mystical medicine and modern medicine augmented by folk/herbal medicine - commonly referred to as "CAM" - complementary and alternative medicine.

[sarafina]

What a fascinating thread. Glad the patient survived (for now)

I am the daughter of a diabetic (childhood, since 1949) who has had numerous gran mals, and the sister of an epileptic (since 1990) who has ongoing small seizures inbetween the big ones.

I would have done my best to protect her head and limbs from injury during the seizures, and when they stopped if she was unconscious, grey, and clammy I would have been pumping the sugar water up her posterior. If it wasn't a diabetic come the sugar prolly wouldn't hurt her, and if it was that's the best way I know, with out an iv, to get it into the blood stream fast. I am surprised that putting sugar under the tongue or cheek is enough to get the blood sugar rising. If my dad is convulsing and then unconsious hes blood sugar is down in the 30's and he needs a LOT of juice to get him going again.

Prolly because on my family's medical history I am pretty paranoid about medical preparedness and both the house, car and boat are as well prepared for emergencies as I can make them, without getting crazy.

On board I would have had an enema kit and iv fluid and setup and sugar. I am not good at iv's and would in this case have done the rectal route, but in an emergency I could prolly get an iv in. It would be better if the patient was unconscious while I was doing it... easier on both of us... And if by chance there was someone on board who WAS good at iv's then I would have the kit for them to use.

I prolly would not have given the valium though, and that was obviously key... It didn't occur to me off the bat, even though I carry it. If I had found it in her stuff I prolly would have made the connection at that point. I hope.

I always sorta go on the theory that if you are prepared then the odds of needing it will be less... it's when yer not ready that you get bit on the ass. So I view my huge medical kits as insurance in more than one way.

Again, great thread.

And I have to say that I didn't find any of the alternative medical information mystical or airey fairey. Or off the deep end. Just not familiar to many in the western culture. Don't dismiss what you don't understand, JUST because you don't understand it...

[Ozbullwinkle]

Originally Posted by osirissail

You must have missed her post #92 where she apparently went off the deep end into mystical medicine and didn't just stay with folk herbal medicine.
- - Folk herbal medicine is the basis of all modern pharmaceutical medicine and is still a great resource for treating conditions when "modern" medicine is just not available.
- - Subsequent posts by others including some quite humorous videos followed to make the difference between mystical medicine and modern medicine augmented by folk/herbal medicine - commonly referred to as "CAM" - complementary and alternative medicine.

I agree that the topic got off track but if you go back to where she first suggested the onion juice it was right on track as she was just suggesting something else as an out of the box thing to try. Then everyone jumped all over her and discredited her field of experience. It was only Capngeo who gave her a fair go. Sarafina's comment sums it up perfectly "Don't dismiss what you don't understand, JUST because you don't understand it... "

[osirissail]

Originally Posted by Ozbullwinkle

. . . Sarafina's comment sums it up perfectly "Don't dismiss what you don't understand, JUST because you don't understand it... "

Okay, now you are getting involved in personal attacks which is outside the bounds of decorum in effect for this forum - I do know what MermaidMuse was talking about in her post#92 and #98 - Do you?
- - If you take the time to learn about what she was talking about you would find out that it is largely based on mystical medicine with components of folk herbal medicine. The folk herbal is fine and useful and recognized around the world as I stated. What is not recognized is mystical medicine. Post #128 was an apt parody on that sort of thing.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by osirissail

Okay, now you are getting involved in personal attacks which is outside the bounds of decorum in effect for this forum - I do know what MermaidMuse was talking about in her post#92 and #98 - Do you?
- - If you take the time to learn about what she was talking about you would find out that it is largely based on mystical medicine with components of folk herbal medicine. The folk herbal is fine and useful and recognized around the world as I stated. What is not recognized is mystical medicine. Post #128 was an apt parody on that sort of thing.

With all due respect, much of folk herbal medicine has been shown not only to have no efficacy, but much of it is down right dangerous.

Interestingly enough, herbalists also object to standardized amounts of active ingredients in their preparations being mandated. Most preparations are tinctures, which comprise primarily of alcohol, with some herb.

So no, most folk herbal is not useful and fine. That is just promulgating a fallacy.