Standalone exterior Marine Cartplotter running Windows?

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Completely different subject, put please don't get me started on Apple with its overpriced hardware and it's user restrictions and data collection habits.

Since I use Windows (for about 30 years by now) I hardly ever needed to do anything with command-line code. Almost all equipment I plugged in worked fine right out of the box.
Everytime I tried Linux I ended up with codes and a command-line. Far from user friendly.

I consider command-line user friendly. I have every system discussed so not a fanboy of any single system, I just see flaws withall of them and am not afraid to name them. The biggest reason plotter manufacturers do not use Windows is because it is not good enough.

[Franziska]

Well, that's the fundamental difference, most software USERS, including myself, do consider command-line codes like "sudo" or whatever cumbersome at best.

If someone has coding experience it may be different for them, but to expect people to type in codes or worse learn coding when they only want to use the hardware or software is not user oriented at all.

To learn coding in itself is surely not bad. But to get forced to learn it just because you want to use an operating system is not the way to go in my point of view.

Anyway, I guess I just accept that there is no windows plug and play chartplotter available and it's unlikely that we'll ever see one on the market.

We have no proprietary chartplotter (and will not buy one) and will therefore continue with the OpenCPN laptop and the Android tablet.
Second best option will be a outdoor touchscreen added into the system despite their shortcomings.

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I consider command-line user friendly. I have every system discussed so not a fanboy of any single system, I just see flaws withall of them and am not afraid to name them. The biggest reason plotter manufacturers do not use Windows is because it is not good enough.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Anyway, I guess I just accept that there is no windows plug and play chartplotter available and it's unlikely that we'll ever see one on the market.

Hi and Happy New Year. What you're actually seeking is a weatherproof sunlight-readable tablet-like computer or display+interface with weatherproof joystick/arrow navigation controls and other buttons, that is capable of running Windows... which means it could also run Linux. And the truth is.... we all would like to find something like that. Probably the closest approximation would be a small PC with industrial monitor and some sort of added control pad.

I hear you re the investment you have with Windows, but these days one can do a lot with the better Linux distributions, without having to go to the command line. If you have an old laptop around, try one of the Linux distributions on it. There's even some bootable 'marine' Linux distributions with all the popular marine applications already installed. They can be tried from a boot able USB stick so you don't have to install anything. If you're serious about a marine computer system, Linux is the best choice.

[Reefmagnet]

Most modern linux distros install easier than Windows.

Not sure about the need to code linux. Besides, modern Windows has a stealthy reliance on the command line (powershell) which can come unpleasantly to the fore when setting up a custom configuration. With linux in general, at worst you run commands to install software or edit config files. Neither require you to be a computer genius as step by step instructions are just about always a few clicks away on the internet. Ironically, "sudo" is a command that should be the first any linux user becomes familiar with as it is the difference between needing a layer of resource hungry anti virus protection that interferes with everything on Windows versus being able to trust a clean skin linux install to not catch a cold.

I would suggest, regardless of OS, to document your own custom setup whilst doing it and make a backup image of the disk when done as you will need to tweak regardless.

[mikecambrai]

The ultimate exterior laptop has been the Panasonic Toughbook which is used by the military for navigation and general difficult situations that require a rugged build. You can get them second hand on eBay for around £300 and although they do use W10 and thus programmes like OpenCPN etc. are usable, none of them has screens which compare with proprietary chart plotters. The screen technology is so very different.
Using W10 would certainly make sourcing charts much cheaper and getting regular updates too, but I have never seen a screen that you can read in sunlight on anything but a standard chart plotter.
If anyone can explain the difference between the technology of these screens I would be pleased to understand what it is. Perhaps you could take the feed from a laptop and put it into an old Chartplotter and just use it as an external screen?
Explanations welcome!

[bobbyp47]

Older Panasonic Toughbook. I can use the sunlight viewable screen on the outside of the boat, waterproof, runs various marine software of your choice, dual batteries for 8 hour days. Run windows or linux. $300-$500 on ebay.

[BuenaOnda]

Hi Guys!
We, at SailProof, are planning to launch a Win10 rugged tablet with a 1000 nits 10 inch screen this year. We have already launched an Android 8 inch tablet with the same sunlight readable screen in 2020. Stay in touch (https://sailproof.shop), perhaps will it be the missing link ;-)

JM

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by BuenaOnda

Hi Guys!
We, at SailProof, are planning to launch a Win10 rugged tablet with a 1000 nits 10 inch screen this year. We have already launched an Android 8 inch tablet with the same sunlight readable screen in 2020. Stay in touch (https://sailproof.shop), perhaps will it be the missing link ;-)

JM

I doubt if 1000nits is enough. I have an android rugged tablet with 1000nit display which we use on deck for race tactics and navigation. It is a constant struggle to read the screen especially the small text. Huge numerals are fine, small ones are nearly impossible.

I am still waiting for a truly sunlight readable screen. Maybe e-ink would be OK, I don't need color, but I need to run a wide variety of android apps.

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by wingssail

I doubt if 1000nits is enough. I have an android rugged tablet with 1000nit display which we use on deck for race tactics and navigation. It is a constant struggle to read the screen especially the small text. Huge numerals are fine, small ones are nearly impossible.

I am still waiting for a truly sunlight readable screen. Maybe e-ink would be OK, I don't need color, but I need to run a wide variety of android apps.

Hi, while I'am out of the discussion now, because it slowly migrated to alternative solutions which I am mostly aware of and which where not the point of my initial question, you've got a valid point regarding E-ink.
They start to have full color e-ink displays as well (I know these are phones and not a standalone screen, but thats probably just a question of time, there are people working on the refresh rate as well):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnhWI8uRk7M

[BuenaOnda]

Originally Posted by wingssail

I doubt if 1000nits is enough. I have an android rugged tablet with 1000nit display which we use on deck for race tactics and navigation. It is a constant struggle to read the screen especially the small text. Huge numerals are fine, small ones are nearly impossible.

I am still waiting for a truly sunlight readable screen. Maybe e-ink would be OK, I don't need color, but I need to run a wide variety of android apps.

Hi!
Are you sure that your tablet has a real 1000 nits screen? Most of the chartplotters installed on our boats in the last 10 years were between 800 and 1000 nits, only the new models are going higher. A good quality (real) 1000 nits is really sufficient. We have tested 1000 nits screen during 4 years and it works very well... But it must be a good quality anti glare screen.
JM

[BuenaOnda]

The problem with e-ink or similar techs is that it's not easy to produce. Costs and manufacturing constraints have frighten off most of the companies in the field.
Check the price of this 6" waterproof black-and-white screen (running Android 4.42) and you'll understand: https://www.sailracer.net/inkdisplay/

[AKA-None]

Two items for your consideration
The us navy tried windows on a ship and it failed spectacularly
The other item is a one desktop per child laptop that had both a color screen and an eink screen that is pretty coll but it uses Linux

[Franziska]

Thanks, at the moment we have two windows 10 laptops with identical setup on board one in use, one as reserve.
We have another one, which I use for work. It has also all the boat setup on board.

So far no issues with windows 10, works very reliable.

We also have an Android tablet outside, which works fine, but I'd prefer the solution I mentioned in post one.

Because of the visibility issues and problems touchscreen still have in wet environments I was hoping for the described windows chartplotter with custom hardware buttons.
I accept now that it does not exist.

So we may end up with a ruggedized touchscreen in the cockpit linked to the main win 10 nav laptop after all and replace the tablet with it.

As mentioned previously I have several times used Linux and every time I ended up with quirky set up issues and a command line and instructions to type codes into it.
Not for me, thank you.

Originally Posted by AKA-None

Two items for your consideration
The us navy tried windows on a ship and it failed spectacularly
The other item is a one desktop per child laptop that had both a color screen and an eink screen that is pretty coll but it uses Linux

[spoolin01]

Since no exact unit as requested is available, I wouldn't think finding a programmable multi-button I/O controller with a joystick would be too hard, and maybe the manufacturer might have a flexible waterproof cover as have been available for standard keyboard layouts. I would think the easier and better looking solution would be simply to panel mount a touchscreen behind a clear flexible shield, in waterproof fashion. You can get small hardware with stripped-down Windows builds, the "embedded" versions in so-called thin clients, that do away with the fluff, and are less demanding of hardware horsepower. I stopped paying attention at Wndows 7/8, but the hardware/software builds are made with good graphics performance in mind, and the ones I played with consumed 15W or even half that, for the brain box itself anyway.

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by Franziska

So we may end up with a ruggedized touchscreen in the cockpit linked to the main win 10 nav laptop after all and replace the tablet with it.

This isnt really what you are looking for but I thought I might add it to this thread anyway as extra information about additional exterior displays.

There is another thread here https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ys-235575.html with interesting links and info about using a Kindle Paperwhite as a repeater - in this case for instrument displays, so not really as a fully interactive device.

It could be a nice addition as part of an overall setup though.