Raymarine Electronics Upgrade Advice?

[Sandero]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Sailing specific plotters like the Zeus ones need boat speed and wind data to give you any of the sailing functions.
.

If you're a season sailor and not racing... you should not "need" these sailing functions... your experience tells you and it will be pretty damn good.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

I beg to differ. The OP has a nice, fully integrated system and you suggest he give up functionality just to have newer electronics. He may as well end up being disappointed.

It is extremely re-assuring to see a radar/AIS overlay on the chart. You immediately know that the radar is calibrated correctly for the conditions (in order to use radar effectively one needs to adjust controls to correct for seastate, leading edge detection, etc. It is easy to forget the settings in manual mode and you would never know if the radar is working well or not unless you can correlate it to land/other objects). You can see if buoys have shifted due to tides/currents/waves. You can measure distances to objects and then from that object to land that may be behind the radar horizon but will show up on the chart. I can go on but integrated is the way to go.

Next, regarding separate displays vs. the chartplotter. It is a boat after all not an airplane. I personally like to have all data shown on the MFD and the other dedicated instruments our of sight. It is nice, clean and you can customize the display for racing, cruising, coastal, etc.

I believe we should be fair to the OP in that if he needs to match the performance of the current system, he needs to spend a considerable amount of money instead of pushing him with something inferior even if newer. Lastly, while I think the Quantum radar is great, it is comparable to the 3G radar. If the OP wants to have a truly better experience he needs to get the Raymarine HD radar. I would do that. The power consumption difference is too small to matter.

Actually, you helped make my point, to decide, one has to ask how important integration is to THEM. To me, and some customers, not at all.
Some actually prefer discrete, isolated components for redundancy on failure. Others, like you, may prefer everything talking.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Sandero

If you're a season sailor and not racing... you should not "need" these sailing functions... your experience tells you and it will be pretty damn good.

Well, different strokes for different folks -- of course! Everyone works in his own way.

I personally find the sailing functions to be extremely useful when trying to get 1000 miles upwind.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

If you're knocking around a lake, maybe, but in blue water, unless you have a separate radar display, you REALLY want the radar overlay, without which any radar navigation requires manual chart work.

AIS is somewhat usable on a separate display, but it is also very difficult to visualize the relationship to your position, waypoints, land features, sea lanes, TSS's, etc. if the targets are not overlaid on your plotter screen. Plus a separate AIS screen is a PITA to find space for and mount.

Track mode for your pilot is extremely useful in many situations.

Wind mode on your pilot is practically an essential feature for sailing long legs upwind -- you must integrate your pilot with the network to get this.

Display of data like depth, boat speed, wind in the data bar along the top of your plotter screen can be very valuable, depending on how your other instruments are configured, where they are, how visible from the helm, etc. For a plotter at the nav table, it may be the ONLY display of that data you have.

Your plotter needs heading data for different purposes.

Sailing specific plotters like the Zeus ones need boat speed and wind data to give you any of the sailing functions.


In short, I think it is very bad advice, to advise NOT fully integrating your electronics, except maybe for bowriders or party boats in a lake used only on Sundays. N2K networking is so easy, there is really no reason not to, in any case.

The OP already has a pathfinder radar display integrated with all the other electronics. If that serves him well and all he feels he is really lacking is a modern chartplotter and some day down the road AIS, just getting the Axiom now is a very viable solution.

Mistake number one is assuming that your personal preference is THE one and only solution for everyone. It isn't. (Else everyone would have the exact same boat as you, and they don't. )

[Sandero]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Well, different strokes for different folks -- of course! Everyone works in his own way.

I personally find the sailing functions to be extremely useful when trying to get 1000 miles upwind.

DH this is a silly answer... weather changes... in a 1000 mile upwind as you call it journey.... unless you are sailing where the winds don't change.

Maybe in the trade winds as in the NE coast of SA... Brazil.... I've done that too.... a sailing program would hardly be helpful...

Kindly explain a bit... inquiring minds want to know

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Sandero

DH this is a silly answer... weather changes... in a 1000 mile upwind as you call it journey.... unless you are sailing where the winds don't change.

Maybe in the trade winds as in the NE coast of SA... Brazil.... I've done that too.... a sailing program would hardly be helpful...

Kindly explain a bit... inquiring minds want to know

You don't understand at all -- this is for optimizing upwind performance. What does changing weather have to do with it? On the contrary, understanding and responding to changing weather is one of the big challenges.

You have a Zeus -- have you never used the SailSteer functions? Or the wind trend graphs in a split screen with the plotter?

When you're fighting for every bit of VMG to windward as the weather changes, these functions are extremely useful.

Even much more useful than SailSteer, though is EDO Instruments, which I use on a tablet.

Many cruisers don't bother to get anywhere right upwind -- they just motor or wait for the wind to change. So again, this is not for everyone, but those of us who sometimes have to effectively use a narrow weather window and get long distances upwind -- this technology is a Godsend.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

The OP already has a pathfinder radar display integrated with all the other electronics. If that serves him well and all he feels he is really lacking is a modern chartplotter and some day down the road AIS, just getting the Axiom now is a very viable solution.

Mistake number one is assuming that your personal preference is THE one and only solution for everyone. It isn't. (Else everyone would have the exact same boat as you, and they don't. )

No one assumes that one approach suits everyone. Of course not.

Putting a second new cheap plotter next to an obsolete old one, and continuing to use the obsolete radar on the second old screen, losing even the overlay function the OP previously had -- sure. For someone that will be an ok solution For others, however, that's adding new junk to old junk and reducing functionality even beyond what he had before.

My point was only to not minimize the importance of integration of electronics to most sailors, and I named some examples of where that integration is important. You asked "who needs radar overlay?" I was answering that question. I didn't say everyone needs it -- many sailors don't even know how to do radar navigation, and many other sailors never double check what the plotter tells them (we had a thread on it recently -- about "video game navigators"). For such people, yes, radar overlay is not needed.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

No one assumes that one approach suits everyone. Of course not.

Putting a second new cheap plotter next to an obsolete old one, and continuing to use the obsolete radar on the second old screen, losing even the overlay function the OP previously had -- sure. For someone that will be an ok solution For others, however, that's adding new junk to old junk and reducing functionality even beyond what he had before.

My point was only to not minimize the importance of integration of electronics to most sailors, and I named some examples of where that integration is important. You asked "who needs radar overlay?" I was answering that question. I didn't say everyone needs it -- many sailors don't even know how to do radar navigation, and many other sailors never double check what the plotter tells them (we had a thread on it recently -- about "video game navigators"). For such people, yes, radar overlay is not needed.

Or, it gives the owner the advantages of a new chartplotter, without changing everything. If the advantages of greater chartplotter resolution, brightness, functions, update speed, electronic chart compatibility, are greater than maintaining radar overlay capability, adding an Axiom may be a great solution for them.

If you don't care for this solution for your boat, then by all means,
don't do it, but I didn't think we were talking about your boat, your sailing
and cruising preferences, and your money?

[Sandero]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

You don't understand at all -- this is for optimizing upwind performance. What does changing weather have to do with it? On the contrary, understanding and responding to changing weather is one of the big challenges.

You have a Zeus -- have you never used the SailSteer functions? Or the wind trend graphs in a split screen with the plotter?

I have a stand alone T7 with no inputs... it's a plotter under my dodger which shows me where the boat is heading.

I do the weather optimization old style if you call it that. I can see my track and the old Hornet will give VMG, CMG and so on... I can make sense of it in my analog brain. I also know the performance of my boat... I've sailed it for 32 years... in all sorts of wind and sea conditions...

I don't fight for every little bit of VMG... 1000 miles... I am out there for 6 days to 2 weeks... what's the rush?

[sck5]

wind vane mode is a "sailing function" I use regularlyy. Rather than sail to a compass heading it sails the boat to a given number of degrees off the wind. Keeps you from having to make sail adjustments all the time when what you really want is to e.g. just keep as close to the wind as you can for a few days. I have never raced at all but that is one functiuon that is pretty useful. And you need the wind instrument to talk to your autopilot to get it

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Or, it gives the owner the advantages of a new chartplotter, without changing everything. If the advantages of greater chartplotter resolution, brightness, functions, update speed, electronic chart compatibility, are greater than maintaining radar overlay capability, adding an Axiom may be a great solution for them.

If you don't care for this solution for your boat, then by all means,
don't do it, but I didn't think we were talking about your boat, your sailing
and cruising preferences, and your money?

As I said -- for some people, that might be an OK solution.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Sandero

. . . I don't fight for every little bit of VMG... 1000 miles... I am out there for 6 days to 2 weeks... what's the rush?

Sure. Different strokes and all that.

But just out of curiosity -- do you always believe your plotter without question? Don't you ever use radar to double check? Don't you ever need to keep a radar watch while being able to see where you are on the plotter at the same time?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by sck5

wind vane mode is a "sailing function" I use regularlyy. Rather than sail to a compass heading it sails the boat to a given number of degrees off the wind. Keeps you from having to make sail adjustments all the time when what you really want is to e.g. just keep as close to the wind as you can for a few days. I have never raced at all but that is one functiuon that is pretty useful. And you need the wind instrument to talk to your autopilot to get it

Yes, absolutely.

Without this function, if you are going hard on the wind, someone has to be behind the helm all the time. It's really a Godsend for those of us who ever go long distances upwind.

[Neptune's Gear]

Any competent navigator knows that it is unsafe to rely on a single source of data - like a standalone plotter. Radar overlays in particular will immediately highlight any discrepancies, so can sonar(depth finder or fwd scan), but it is not so obvious. Your eyes can be one source. I prefer 3, to be certain. Modern systems provide more info, at lower cost, and lower power consumption than ever before. Go to your local supplier, and try a few brands. Better yet, read and understand the manuals, then go test. It never ceases to amaze me how much misinformation is out there, and how many people can't work their equipment. It really is worth the time, so you are safer, and get your monies worth!

[Emmalina]

Having been a faithful Raymarine customer for 30+years I have come to a point where I have to say no. To many model changes varying support levels excessive equipment failures. All started 8 years ago when I tried to go for st70 nme2000. Long story short I have a big bag or Raymarine things if you need anything let me know