Radar or AIS to rouse me when in a stupor?

[Bycrick]

I’ve never found a radar proximity alarm that I’d trust in anything other than the most benign conditions. And even then ….

[rslifkin]

Pretty much any of the newer Doppler radars are good. My personal choice would be the Furuno NXT units though, as I think they're the only ones with a full ARPA implementation. So they'll track targets automatically, while the Raymarine and Simrad stuff requires manual target acquisition (to get things like CPA and TCPA as well as target speed tracking). The Doppler display for whether targets are moving closer or not is automatic on all of them as far as I know.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Bycrick

I’ve never found a radar proximity alarm that I’d trust in anything other than the most benign conditions. And even then ….

why is that?

if the radar receives a bounce within the set zone, the alarm will go off, right?

under what circumstances would that not happen or not work?

Why is it you feel this way?

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Pretty much any of the newer Doppler radars are good. My personal choice would be the Furuno NXT units though, as I think they're the only ones with a full ARPA implementation. So they'll track targets automatically, while the Raymarine and Simrad stuff requires manual target acquisition (to get things like CPA and TCPA as well as target speed tracking). The Doppler display for whether targets are moving closer or not is automatic on all of them as far as I know.

OK. Fair enough. I’m looking at the Furuno NXT. Seems good. However, I have serious concerns about the compatibility and if it will play well with the Raymarine equipment I have.

can I be guaranteed to be able to use all of the features available? Or will some of them not work because I’m mixing and matching?

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by Chotu

OK. Fair enough. I’m looking at the Furuno NXT. Seems good. However, I have serious concerns about the compatibility and if it will play well with the Raymarine equipment I have.



can I be guaranteed to be able to use all of the features available? Or will some of them not work because I’m mixing and matching?

You won’t be using a radar of any other manufacturer with the axiom display other than raymarine. Same holds true for the others as well. Furuno with furuno (except for the furuno radar that uses an iPad app).

[phorvati]

You need to have both. 50 foot boat should have AIS transponder, and radar. It's the others seeing your AIS transmits carrying all the vital avoidance info, that improves safety, especially when single handed/sleep deprived. Even with rested/alert crew, night time can be tricky. You easily become confused with lights and distances and which direction other ships are moving. Having radar signature with AIS on top gives 2 means of confirmation you are safe. And you don't have to get up to answer VHF calls. When they see you on AIS they won't hail you. You maintain your overnight routine without disruptions. There is a lot going on mentally in your head on long solo passages, the less disruptions and nuisances, the better.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

You won’t be using a radar of any other manufacturer with the axiom display other than raymarine. Same holds true for the others as well. Furuno with furuno (except for the furuno radar that uses an iPad app).

OK. Thank you. That settles that. That’s what I figured. So Raymarine it is. I am definitely locked in the RayMarine garden.

[SV_Sweet_Ruca]

Originally Posted by Chotu

why is that?

if the radar receives a bounce within the set zone, the alarm will go off, right?

under what circumstances would that not happen or not work?

Why is it you feel this way?

It does not always receive a "bounce". The reason is waves.

Radar can be ineffective in offshore conditions. It will surely pick up a cargo ship, but don't expect it to consistently pick up a 20ft fishing boat offshore in a blow.

We run our radar at two ranges, one short, one long, with multiple proximity alarms. What you see and what will cause an alarm will be greatly influenced by the conditions. In a calm anchorage the proximity alarm on modern radars will pick up a kayak, a great security feature. Offshore in waves, a 40 ft sailboat may not be easily seen on radar.

We actually find transmitting AIS very effective when sailing Offshore. Large ships will see you in plenty of time avoid.

If you have the money to spend to rig a large catamaran, neglecting to budget for AIS if singlehanded offshore would be negligent IMO.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by SV_Sweet_Ruca

It does not always receive a "bounce". The reason is waves.

Radar can be ineffective in offshore conditions. It will surely pick up a cargo ship, but don't expect it to consistently pick up a 20ft fishing boat offshore in a blow.

We run our radar at two ranges, one short, one long, with multiple proximity alarms. What you see and what will cause an alarm will be greatly influenced by the conditions. In a calm anchorage the proximity alarm on modern radars will pick up a kayak, a great security feature. Offshore in waves, a 40 ft sailboat may not be easily seen on radar.

We actually find transmitting AIS very effective when sailing Offshore. Large ships will see you in plenty of time avoid.

If you have the money to spend to rig a large catamaran, neglecting to budget for AIS if singlehanded offshore would be negligent IMO.

Crap. I definitely need a second opinion on this post. Can other people please chime in with what they think about it?

if this is the case, radar will be useless for my situation.

Ruca: I think you missed something. In the first post. It says it’s a phased approach. I think you missed that. I’m asking what to get first. Not what to get ultimately.

but if what you are saying is true, this is awful. I don’t have anything that will do what I’m trying to do.

I’ve had many radars on my boots over the years, but not a single one has ever worked. This will be my first working radar. So I don’t know anything about it. Plenty of 50 foot boats. No radars. No AIS. I’ve done find my whole life. I don’t actually need them. But I would like them for the safety feature.


Edit: where did my radar work a little better in rough conditions because I am on a catamaran? I don’t roll. I mostly pitch.

[Be Free]

Chotu,
If I had to pick and money was not a concern, the radar would be my first choice. The learning curve is steeper but it may identify dangers that AIS will not see.

In the real world, if I could afford a multi-thousand dollar radar I think I'd find a way to add an additional $650 for a good AIS. https://www.milltechmarine.com/b600

[davil]

Hi Chotu

I am definitively in the minority.

My sailing is single-handed much as you describe your situation.

Reading all posts believe is a matter of personal preference and what makes it comfortable and provides the "perceived" safety required.

I have both, use AIS Vesper transponder 100% as long I am moving,
On leaving the dock,
Off when I return to a marina,
stays On if at anchor.

Radar in poor visibility and as a "second opinion"

On if high risk areas like coastal at night, poor visibility and if crossing shipping lanes, threatening weather like squalls.

Above use for the last 5 years

Posting this as you wanted to hear what others use.

Not interested on discussing pros and cons

take care

[Chotu]

that was a good point about the budgetary concerns. Maybe a lesser radar combined with AIS is better than the good radar without AIS. That’s a good point.

Oh it’s a difficult question because I have never had either of these things before. All of my life on boats I have not used radar for AIS. That’s why I’m asking for these opinions. I have never use these before.

[SV_Sweet_Ruca]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Crap. I definitely need a second opinion on this post. Can other people please chime in with what they think about it?

if this is the case, radar will be useless for my situation.

Ruca: I think you missed something. In the first post. It says it’s a phased approach. I think you missed that. I’m asking what to get first. Not what to get ultimately.

but if what you are saying is true, this is awful. I don’t have anything that will do what I’m trying to do.

I’ve had many radars on my boots over the years, but not a single one has ever worked. This will be my first working radar. So I don’t know anything about it. Plenty of 50 foot boats. No radars. No AIS. I’ve done find my whole life. I don’t actually need them. But I would like them for the safety feature.


Edit: where did my radar work a little better in rough conditions because I am on a catamaran? I don’t roll. I mostly pitch.

Maybe my reply was worded a bit strong. Not meant to cause alarm, pun intended ;-)

We have also sailed lots of shorthanded miles at night without the gizmos. Surely waking up every 15 minutes and doing a horizon check can also get you by.

The new radars are light-years ahead of the old tech. No warm up, MARPA, better visibility and draw so little battery you can leave them on 24/7 if wanted. The close range, flat water vision is phenomenal.

That said, while offshore, frequently we will see vessels on AIS first or if no AIS and small we will usually see their lights before picking them up on radar.

If you could choose only one or the other, it is a tough call. Radar is the more intensive install, ais can be added more easily later.

AIS is so cheap these days, it is hard to skip. Using a system with all the bells & whistles, you can enjoy a lot more sleep than before.

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Crap. I definitely need a second opinion on this post. Can other people please chime in with what they think about it?

if this is the case, radar will be useless for my situation.

Ruca: I think you missed something. In the first post. It says it’s a phased approach. I think you missed that. I’m asking what to get first. Not what to get ultimately.

but if what you are saying is true, this is awful. I don’t have anything that will do what I’m trying to do.

I’ve had many radars on my boots over the years, but not a single one has ever worked. This will be my first working radar. So I don’t know anything about it. Plenty of 50 foot boats. No radars. No AIS. I’ve done find my whole life. I don’t actually need them. But I would like them for the safety feature.


Edit: where did my radar work a little better in rough conditions because I am on a catamaran? I don’t roll. I mostly pitch.

In large ish seas the radar can and will miss smaller targets. Although I have noticed they’re not missed on every sweep. They may only show up for one out of ten sweeps, but that’s enough to set a proximity alarm.

[kayakerChuck]

I have the Quantum radar & a 7" Axiom. The dome is about 20' above the water.

I'm on Lake St Clair, a busy connecting water of the Great Lakes. The Quantum works really, really well & shows me all sorts of boats & other things before I can see them. It does not show everything, or all boats. It will almost always show me a 14' aluminum rowboat. It may not show me a 30' sailboat until within 1/2 or 1/4 mile ish. It can do a bit better if I play with the setting manually.

The Doppler feature is wonderful.

In my home waters, I'd guess that only about 1% of the recreational boats are transmitting AIS. MAYBE 5 or 10% receive, display, and understand AIS signals.